The German - ME109 vs Spitfire

[74-911]

A really cool video...

The German

[scottbombedout]

Really nice video. Absolutely love the sound of a Spitfire, right up there with a P 51.

[Baz]

Nice one Jack....learned something new. I love WW II history. An amazing time in history....thanks!

[mossguy]

Thanks Jack! That is excellent (especially the Webley!).

[azasadny]

Great video! Thanks for sharing!

[Baz]

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

Really nice video. Absolutely love the sound of a Spitfire, right up there with a P 51.

Yes this.

I have a client who is a former Navy pilot. I asked him if he thought the P-51 was the most beautiful war bird and he replied his fav. was the Spitfire because of it's lines..the shape of the wings, etc. I have to agree....the Spitfire is a beauty!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

Really nice video. Absolutely love the sound of a Spitfire, right up there with a P 51.

That would make sense since they had essentially the same engine. Spitfire had a Rolls-Royce Merlin and the P-51 used the same engine built by Packard.

[recycled sixtie]

Thanks for the video . I really liked the plot with the twist at the end. One question here - what does the fighter pilot pee into in the aircraft? I am sure I would have the need for a nervous pee when in the air! Any fighter pilots answer this question?

[74-911]

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

Really nice video. Absolutely love the sound of a Spitfire, right up there with a P 51.

IIRC the Spitfire and P-51 were both powered by RR Merlins? Wd already beat me to it.... nevermind.

[71er E]

Although i´m german i can´t understand this guy. Seems it is a Hungarian speaking (or trying) somewhat german...
Grandad was a ME109 pilot but passed away some years ago. Nowadays i want to ask him so much about the time, but..... better to have peace and watch movies about that time than sitting in a ME109 in 1944 and fly for you life.

[davidbir]

I wondered about his "german". I find the second part of this film unsettling and unlikely somehow--I understood there was more of a "Code of Honour" between pilots on both sides and more respect was shown.

My apologies for starting another thread on this-I was not aware of this one

[romad]

I did some work on both, The Spit is an absolutly beautifull airplane, just stunning. Funny because British aircraft since have been pretty funky looking.

The 109 is pure function.

[stuartj]

Great CGI. I say it every time a Spit thread comes up, but I think its the most elegant machine ever conceived. The 109 has its own beauty, like a 911, function over form. But the Spitfire is simply a beautiful machine.

Now, as a boyhood Spitfire nerd, I hope they have their facts right....if thats the Battle of Britain era (ie they are fighting over England, and as it turns Ireland) the Spitfire carried 8xBrowning .303, not the 20mm cannon depicted.......IIRC.

The late 60's "Battle of Britain" is still the film. And there is a recent DVD version which contains a "making of" documentary which is even better than the film.

[cashflyer]

According to my in-laws (who are Irish) there was quite a bit of air combat over northern Ireland during WW2. Here is just one website I found that talks a little about it: The Air War I

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

One question here - what does the fighter pilot pee into in the aircraft?

I am not sure on these particular planes, but some of the options that have been made include a "piddle pack", the pee tube, and adult diapers.

The plane I flew on, an OV-1, had the tube.

[scottbombedout]

Here is an interesting website listing the aircraft that landed in the Republic with details of what, why and how.
Amazing the pilots that thought they were over Britain.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by 71er E

Grandad was a ME109 pilot but passed away some years ago. Nowadays i want to ask him so much about the time, but..... better to have peace and watch movies about that time than sitting in a ME109 in 1944 and fly for you life.

I think that is a mistake most of us make re: our grandparents. By the time we realize how many questions we have for them about their experiences and lives it is to late.

Your last point about flying for your life was particularly true. The German pilots were in it til the war ended for them - one way or another. There was never an option of going home after x number of missions.

[davidbir]

Originally Posted by 74-911

I think that is a mistake most of us make re: our grandparents. By the time we realize how many questions we have for them about their experiences and lives it is to late.

Your last point about flying for your life was particularly true. The German pilots were in it til the war ended for them - one way or another. There was never an option of going home after x number of missions.

Shortly before my father died I went through all his photos from the war with him. At one point a photo of a downed bomber came up and he flicked it aside, "What is that photo about?" I asked him. "I was in the dorsal turret" was his reply and he continued going through the photos. We never discussed it more...

[Bill Douglas]

Yes it's a shame we were shooting at eachother. Plenty of other people to shoot at.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Great CGI. I say it every time a Spit thread comes up, but I think its the most elegant machine ever conceived. The 109 has its own beauty, like a 911, function over form. But the Spitfire is simply a beautiful machine.

Now, as a boyhood Spitfire nerd, I hope they have their facts right....if thats the Battle of Britain era (ie they are fighting over England, and as it turns Ireland) the Spitfire carried 8xBrowning .303, not the 20mm cannon depicted.......IIRC.

The late 60's "Battle of Britain" is still the film. And there is a recent DVD version which contains a "making of" documentary which is even better than the film.

I wasn't specifically a boyhood "Spitfire nerd" so much as and all-around WWII aircraft nerd. And, yes, you remember correctly - the early Mark I had the eight .303's; the 20mm cannons were not fitted until the much later Mark VB.

There was a great deal of debate as to which approach was more effective - the swarming mass of bullets form eight .30 or .50 caliber machine guns, or the big thumping hits from the 20mm cannons. Rate of fire was much lower with the cannons, and there were only two firing, so they kind of favored the "marksmen" who got close and fired sparingly.

The Spitfire was a fantastic airplane, and a really fun one to study. IIRC, it went through 20-odd variations, or "marks". The Mark IX was considered the "definitive" Spitfire, the perfect balance of size, power, weight, maneuverability, and firepower. Later marks did nothing but get bigger and heavier and, finally, fitted the Griffon engine that well and truly ruined it.

That big old Griffon, in addition to being significantly heavier, turned the "wrong" way - opposite of the Merlin. With all the torque those motors produce, and all the inertia in that massive prop, pilots had to intuitively stomp on the right rudder pedal whenever they firewalled it. Imagine if the new airplane suddenly demanded that intuition be forgotten, and the other pedal be pressed when hitting the power, especially under the stress of battle. Pilots who cut their teeth on earlier marks hated them.

Really, in a number of ways, the Spitfire mimicked the development progression of our beloved 911's. Simple, light, balanced, and effective in their earlier marks, they gave all that up for speed in their later marks. The got heavy and ungainly, and pilots yearned for the earlier "pilots' airplanes".

[911pcars]

Nice background info guys.

thanks,
Sherwood