Forget to declare a firearm in your checked luggage=CCW violation

[Dueller]

Had a trial today representing a woman who checked luggage but forgot that there was a pistol left in her luggage from an earlier trip that did not involve a commercial flight.

The .25 cal unloaded pistol was picked up when TSA scanned her checked bags. They pulled her off plane and rather than charge her with a Federal violation charged her with carrying a concealed weapon under state law. That was a blessing.

Anyhoo, went to trial today and in the course of preparring I found a line of cases that supported the proposition that access to the weapon rather than constructive possession was critical to a finding of guilt. As brilliant (j/k) as my legal analysis she was faced with a dilemma: if I got the state CCW violation dismissed, TSA would file Federal charges that carried much stiffer penalties. I f she pled to the state CCW violation she couldn't be prosecuted federally under double jeopardy clause.

I know it was an accident and she didn't know the pistol was in her checked bag: She works for airlines and is well aware of how easy it is to transport a weapon...locked container, unloaded, declare with desk.

But I digress. Our real dilemma was if she was convicted and her employer found out about it she could be fired. State charges had a fine of $100-1,000 and up to 6 months in jail. So what did I do? Cut a deal with prosecuter. In exchange for a no lo plea, judge would find her guilty, assess min fine ($100), no jail time. Prosecuter would not object to me filing a motion to expunge one hour after the conviction. Judge signed the expungement order 67 minutes after her conviction.

Not a bad morning's work.

But the real point of this post is that in the course of dealing with TSA and researching the case, if you don't want your luggage lost or ripped off, CHECK YOUR LUGGAGE AND PROPERLY DECLARE A WEAPON.i Seems that when you do this your luggage is watched every step of the way and handled very carefully. Logged in specially as there is hell to pay for anybody involved in handling your bags if it doesn't arrive or is tampered with in any way.

Thought that was interesting.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Dueller

But the real point of this post is that in the course of dealing with TSA and researching the case, if you don't want your luggage lost or ripped off, CHECK YOUR LUGGAGE AND PROPERLY DECLARE A WEAPON.i Seems that when you do this your luggage is watched every step of the way and handled very carefully. Logged in specially as there is hell to pay for anybody involved in handling your bags if it doesn't arrive or is tampered with in any way.

Thought that was interesting.

I've had a checked firearm case "lost". They didn't seem too concerned about the situation, "Happens all the time". When I told the bagage claim agent that they now had a firearm "lost" in the sterile area of some airport (Denver or Houston), they actually started to get worried. They he asked me if there was ammunition with the firearm. DUH! Without ammo, a gun is a complicated rock! At that point they got serious about it.

On the other hand, I've also had a flight attendant come up to me and ask about my firearm, which was locked in the hold...

I have often been given the wrong form, the one which lets you take the firearm through security...I always tell them to give me the other form.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

It is very easy to check a bag with a properly declared weapon in it. I'd even say I got through security quicker because of it.

The thing I found strange was at baggage claim on the other side. My bag came down the slide just like everyone else. I assumed I'd need to get it from 'someone'.

Depends on the airport.

[dhoward]

Nice to see some common sense prevailed.
Good job.

[Rick Lee]

Did the gun get confiscated?

[red-beard]

Wait. Is a .25 cal really considered a firearm? Seriously? I think paper cuts can be worse...

[Hugh R]

I checked a jug of real Vermont maple syrup from Boston to LA last week. TSA left me an inspection note in the bag. They actually pulled the foil seal off from under the screw cap. I'll bet the dufus stick his finger in it and tasted it.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by dhoward

good job.

+1

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Did the gun get confiscated?

I hope they did. Anybody who has "forgotten" were one of their firearms is shouldn't be allowed to own them IMO.

From my point of view... Firearms come with a built in responsibility.

Good result for the lawyer but this lady got off very lightly.
She would have to pay a bigger fine if she "forgot" what the speed limit was

[TimT]

TSA left me an inspection note in the bag.

I recently got back from a trip to Cancun and saw one of those notices in my bag when I got home and unpacked...

Did I little chuckle when I thought of some sucker looking through 5 days worth of my dirty clothes and wet swimsuits.. some sundries and a bottle of Tequila ..

[Esel Mann]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I hope they did. Anybody who has "forgotten" were one of their firearms is shouldn't be allowed to own them IMO.

From my point of view... Firearms come with a built in responsibility.

Good result for the lawyer but this lady got off very lightly.
She would have to pay a bigger fine if she "forgot" what the speed limit was

Mistakes can and do happen. We are far from perfect. However I also agree that with firearms comes a certain responsibility. Me personally, there's no way I'm forgetting about where I placed something which can unleash holy hell to multiple parties at distances greater than my arm. Perhaps the fine was lower, but I can assure you that the mental anguish of the process thereafter and the potential to be unemployable in their current occupation, plus the expense of an attorney, plus any expense for needed time off to handle the process is punishment enough. Let's just say a similar situation happened to a family member and it was hell for them. Lesson was learned and they aren't going to have such a mental lapse again.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

I checked a jug of real Vermont maple syrup from Boston to LA last week. TSA left me an inspection note in the bag. They actually pulled the foil seal off from under the screw cap. I'll bet the dufus stick his finger in it and tasted it.

I had a bottle of wine in my suitcase last Fall. TSA opened my bag, I know that from the lock, but no note. The wine box I put the wine in and taped was still sealed.

[competentone]

Originally Posted by Dueller

I know it was an accident and she didn't know the pistol was in her checked bag: She works for airlines and is well aware of how easy it is to transport a weapon...locked container, unloaded, declare with desk.

So prosecutors consider crimes are committed when accidents happen? What ever happened to the idea that intent had to be present before an activity became a crime?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by competentone

So prosecutors consider crimes are committed when accidents happen? What ever happened to the idea that intent had to be present before an activity became a crime?

Only the potential to win a conviction has to be present.

[Amail]

I've read some folks pack a starter's pistol in their bag and declare it at check-in to virtually guarantee their bag gets preferential treatment and won't get lost in transit. Haven't tried it myself, but I'd consider it.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Amail

I've read some folks pack a starter's pistol in their bag and declare it at check-in to virtually guarantee their bag gets preferential treatment and won't get lost in transit. Haven't tried it myself, but I'd consider it.

I check a real pistol and ammo for almost all domestic flights and it's a bit of a PITA. Here in Phoenix the check-in counter and TSA employees are pretty used to it. But I've been given grief in other airports. My factory hard cases have been examined and deemed questionable and I've just been generally hassled by those unfamiliar with the law and airline regs. As long as you act like you know what you're doing, aren't shy or intimidated by anyone, you'll probably be fine. Don't let anyone walk on you. One middle-aged female TSA inspector in Denver even suggested I use one of those useless locks they include with new gun purchases to secure the already locked gun case to the inside of the luggage, making it harder for an baggage handler to remove without tools. I hadn't thought of that one before, but I do it now. One TSA inspector at DFW gave me grief about loaded magazines and put some TSA-labeled "security tape" over them. It was a real PITA to remove that tape.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I check a real pistol and ammo for almost all domestic flights and it's a bit of a PITA. Here in Phoenix the check-in counter and TSA employees are pretty used to it. But I've been given grief in other airports. My factory hard cases have been examined and deemed questionable and I've just been generally hassled by those unfamiliar with the law and airline regs. As long as you act like you know what you're doing, aren't shy or intimidated by anyone, you'll probably be fine. Don't let anyone walk on you. One middle-aged female TSA inspector in Denver even suggested I use one of those useless locks they include with new gun purchases to secure the already locked gun case to the inside of the luggage, making it harder for an baggage handler to remove without tools. I hadn't thought of that one before, but I do it now. One TSA inspector at DFW gave me grief about loaded magazines and put some TSA-labeled "security tape" over them. It was a real PITA to remove that tape.

Yeah, I've had mixed experiences. If you put the loaded mags into a pouch, open end first, they should be OK. I just pack a box of ammo and unloaded mags. The P3AT is only getting FMJ these days. Anything else gets Gold Dots.

Man I need to get to the range. 6 more weeks...