Common sense and buying used.....

[recycled sixtie]

For those that fix their own cars this likely does not apply to you. For myself however I am a firm believer in getting a PPI done before purchasing. However in the first half of my life I did not get a PPI done and got no advice. So I ended up having a 50/50 chance of anything good. Since buying used again in the last 5 years, I have had a PPI done on any used car and it has paid off. So this is to address those would be purchasers of used cars, particularly the high end ones, get a PPI done before purchasing.
I am amazed at newby owners coming onto these forums and complaining about unexpected problems on high end cars and they never had a PPI done. That was me many years ago. Learn from the mistakes of others to avoid draining your bank account.

[pavulon]

I've also had a really bad PPI experience. I've also had a few good ones. The best is to attend the PPI with your mechanic and the car's owner...also get access to a paint meter.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by pavulon

I've also had a really bad PPI experience. I've also had a few good ones. The best is to attend the PPI with your mechanic and the car's owner...also get access to a paint meter.

In my case as a joe layperson, I am happy to get a PPI and have been happy to get two PPI's done with the same indy repair shop. However the problem I have with your suggestion is:
1) Many shops wont let u in the repair area for insurance purposes.
2) Getting a busy seller to come down to indy shop can be a problem. The busy private seller trusted me to take the Boxster down to the indy shop by myself.The PPI showed the deficiencies and I got $2k off the asking price.

My aim on this thread is for the uninitiated to get guidance before buying a used car.
Buyer beware. I just hate to see people buy a car PDQ and then they are on these forums with a whole bunch of problems shortly after purchase.

[Zeke]

If you know the car you are buying because you had one or worked on one, you are just as good a judge as a PPI. Maybe better. I would know how to check out a Boxster or a 911.

But, not having a lift makes it attractive to spend the usual 200 for a pro PPI. Then do what you can yourself to back it up.

In the case of the Jag, I knew nothing and the PPI turned up some critical stuff, mostly underneath.

[Brian 162]

When I bought my 911 it was before I knew about Pelican Parts and it's extensive 911 forum.
I bought my 911 from my mechanic. I knew it sat indoors in the corner of his shop for around 7 years. I never took it to another shop to have it checked out. Silly me. Down the road you name it I had to fix it.
When I bought my last truck I drove to North Carolina to check a few trucks. I bought one from a dealer flew down a week later and almost 2 years later I've had no issues.

[speeder]

It's very important to know and trust the shop doing the PPI and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to put a car on a rack and have look around. My buddy does a pretty thorough PPI on Mercedes and BMW in about 20 minutes and sometimes doesn't charge anything for it, especially if it's for a regular customer.

Sometimes we don't even have to put a car on a rack to advise someone not to buy it. If a car looks OK on first sniff, you can tell a lot quickly once it's on a rack. It's impossible to do any kind of PPI w/o getting under a car, IMO.

PPIs are a great idea but don't have to cost a fortune and most cars I see are DQ'ed before even racking them.

[Britwrench]

Originally Posted by speeder

It's very important to know and trust the shop doing the PPI and you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to put a car on a rack and have look around. My buddy does a pretty thorough PPI on Mercedes and BMW in about 20 minutes and sometimes doesn't charge anything for it, especially if it's for a regular customer.

Sometimes we don't even have to put a car on a rack to advise someone not to buy it. If a car looks OK on first sniff, you can tell a lot quickly once it's on a rack. It's impossible to do any kind of PPI w/o getting under a car, IMO.

PPIs are a great idea but don't have to cost a fortune and most cars I see are DQ'ed before even racking them.

Agree with some of this, had cars here that are not worth driving into the shop.

The first thing I always ask:
Where is the service history? If a one-owner car it MUST have it.
How many keys? One key, no books = auction car
Where did it come from?

My words to any potential buyers coming into the shop:
You don't need this car, you want it, so only buy the one that is right.

Mark

[turbo6bar]

Sorta tangent question:

Pricing?

I'm looking at Ford Rangers from 2000-up. For a given year, kbb and edmunds vary by over $3500 (kbb, $10.7k and edmunds, $7k). Is it even worth paying attention to these guides?

[Rick Lee]

I DIY'ed a PPI on my SC, even brought a new valve cover gasket kit, as I wanted to pull the lowers off and check the head studs. All was fine. After two months of driving it, I went to do a valve adjustment and two head studs came rolling out.

[speeder]

PPIs actually get more involved on really nice/expensive cars, because you have to dig a lot deeper to find anything wrong. For most average used cars with some miles on them, you put them up in the air and a good mechanic can assess the brakes, front end, leaks, and see if there is any significant collision damage/repair history. This takes a matter of minutes.

Between that and driving the car, listening to it and seeing if everything works properly, (plus the presence or absence of records), it's not to hard to tell if a car is a turd or not.

People spend considerably more time and $$ getting cars like 911s PPI'ed. Some of it is really unnecessary, IMO. There are key things to look at on those cars and a good shop can size one up pretty quickly with the other "sniff test" things accounted for, like records and just the general condition of the car. A good friend of mine, (not a car guy), spent an ungodly fortune on a PPI for a G-50 Carrera about a year ago here in L.A. Not from the shop that I associate with on this board, I might add.

[Schumi]

I have never purchased a car where I knew of a shop within a small distance that knew more about the workings of the car than I did. So I have never had a PPI done.

Then again, I do this for a living, so, YMMV.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I DIY'ed a PPI on my SC, even brought a new valve cover gasket kit, as I wanted to pull the lowers off and check the head studs. All was fine. After two months of driving it, I went to do a valve adjustment and two head studs came rolling out.

When I bought my 911SC in 2001, I just did my own rudimentary PPI and completely missed all of the issues like head studs that led to a full rebuild a year later or so. That was about the time I discovered this place and the general practice of using internet BBSs as great sources of info on specific cars/models. I'd owned a 911 before but never had any issues with it. Live and learn.

[azasadny]

We have a good, trusted mechanic check our cars before we buy them and it's definitely paid off, especially in identifying deferred maint and replacement issues...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Zeke

If you know the car you are buying because you had one or worked on one, you are just as good a judge as a PPI. Maybe better. I would know how to check out a Boxster or a 911.

But, not having a lift makes it attractive to spend the usual 200 for a pro PPI. Then do what you can yourself to back it up.

In the case of the Jag, I knew nothing and the PPI turned up some critical stuff, mostly underneath.

Very true. I spend quality time under every car I sell, so I can describe in great detail the work that I have done as well as potential needs down the road. Both times I have had buyers spring for a dealership PPI (XJR & 996) the PPI failed to discover issues that I had already disclosed to the buyer. They did note an oil leak on one of the 996's shocks that I had missed, but at 80k the buyer assumed the shocks were shot anyway. You have to find a really experienced mechanic to make it worth the money.