Quick flooring question: removing linoleum
 

I'm in the process of ripping out my carpet to install Pergo. I did the kitchen in Pergo a couple of years ago, and the wife loved it so much she wants the rest of the house done in it.

In the dining room, there was linoleum, and then they put carpet right over the top of it. Under the linoleum was particle board, under that is the plywood subfloor. I tore up some of the particle board that was in bad shape, and I'll be replacing it. The rest of the particle board is quite solid, but it has chunks of the linoleum and glue that don't want to come off. I think the black stuff that is stuck is part of the linoleum sheet; the top part popped right off.

What's the best way to get this black stuff scraped off? I tried a heat gun with disappointing results.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335139293.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335139442.jpg

There is a thin blade floor scraper that the pros use. It's got a 12" wide blade and the blade is about 16 ga sheet metal. HD should have it.

Link to Hd scraper. Maybe you can rent it.

Floor Scraper-29-004 at The Home Depot

That looks like exactly what I need, but I'm reluctant to cough up $45 to clean up probably 10ft² of material. I'm not a fan of the "buy-use-return" rental plan.

Check with a tool rental place. they my have it.

Or I have one I could FedEx to you.

You need heat. You can also use a clothing iron. Set in a spot to warm, move, scrape up warm spot, repeat. Or, get a propane torch and a fan tip. Heat up an area and scrape off with ease. Or better yet have a helper use the torch and continuously scrape. Try the iron first. Dont catch house on fire with the torch.

Maybe one of those 30 dollar harbor freight scrapers that are so useful to remove the sound deadening from our Porsche carcasses?

Hm. I have a steamer I used to remove wallpaper - how about that?

I appreciate the offer, but the inherent costs would be greater than the price of the tool!

I always rip out all the old underlayment. You say 10 sq ft. What's keeping you from just tossing that and going down with new across the whole area?

I have use one of those floor scrapers. They work well on vinyl floor tile.
There is another with a heavier gauge steel blade.
Depending upon how tight that black backing material is attached to the underlayment you my have to go that route.

Harbor frieght also has an "Ice Scraper" that us folks in the north use for... scraping ice. Heavier duty and works wonders at chipping off that stubborn crud. They are about 15 bucks.

Just spring for the damn scraper and get ready to sweat. Miserable work but someone has to do it.

why not just pull up all the particle board?

Linoleum can have asbestos content. How old is the house?

I don't think he meant buy-use-return. HD has rental section. You can rent their tool. Usually, they charge per day or hour. To me, if you need to work on the tool for more than a day, it won't worth it to rent.
My thought, if it's only around 10 sq feet, and since you already pulled some of boards, why not pull this one too?

I took a wide putty knife ( probably 12 "), and heated it with a map gas torch, then scraped with it. We did the whole kitchen and dining room, and most of it came up easy, but the areas that were in heavy traffic patterns were really stuck down. This worked like a charm .

Ya beat me to it.
I'd be a little nervous around that stuff until I had a sample tested.

Using heat will soften the glue and release hazardous fumes.

I think...any asbestos itself won't be changed until particalized. That's what it was made for.
The asbestos wrap they used for pipe turned into clouds and was the known killer.
This stuff may have the hard-compacted type.
Still, a little water spray after heating will shrink that side of the surface and keep dust to a minimum.

Either that or just replace the subfloor.

Here try this. It may take awhile....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335198332.jpg

Get a 4" razor blade scraper with replaceable blades for it. It is linoleum or sheet vinyl?

You guys have to understand how asbestos gets airborne and into the lungs. Sanding is the absolute worst process when asbestos is present. Breaking apart AB sheets or blocks is the next. Breaking apart soft materials containing AB follows in severity. AB used in flooring is locked up pretty good. It's not like you are sanding brake shoes. Using heat is OK unless combustion occurs and AB is released.

A little mist from a spritzer is all the pros do even wrapped up in a cocoon and suited up. Dealing with the soft stuff, they might put a little starch and soap in the solution. As a contractor, I've had to take the old test. The new test is so ridiculous that I won't comply. I just avoid all interior work now.

Cleaning up a dirty job with a piss poor vac is more dangerous than the act of removing most of what we remove. At least, the exhaust side of the vac should have a hose going out the window. Best is to have a HEPA vac and they are more and more common to find for sale these days.

For future archival info, just wet anything down that is suspect and recover all debris responsibly and completely. Technically, it is supposed to be double bagged, taped up and labeled. Contact your local trash authority for disposal instructions. Just as a note, material containing lead such as paint chips or painted surfaces can be double bagged, taped and tossed into the regular trash.

Edit: Older paper backed vinyl sheet flooring can definitely contain asbestos. Ripping this type of floor up leaving part of the backing still stuck to the glue is hazardous. And some adhesives manufactured before 1978 may contain AB as a binder. Sorry if I mislead.

Wait a minute...what is happening to the existing hardwood that was under the carpet? You're not going to replace that with Pergo are you??

Looking at your picture again I would remove all the particle board and kitchen Pergo and complete the room with a match of the existing wood floor.

Just run a flat bar/pry bar under the particle board.

No reason to remove the lino from the underlayment.
When the particle board breaks, score the lino with a razor knife.

It's easy.


KT

LOL, over the years I've sat through too many training classes on asbestos and other hazardous waste handling.
Lots and lots.
Even carried a CFR-1910.120 instructor certification but got tired of the BS required to keep it current. I'm still current to the technical level going all the way back to March 18th, 1991 according to the piece of paper.

BTW, according to the EPA if that floor covering does contain asbestos, he'd be breaking the law by scraping it up.
Gotta be trained and licenced for anything beyond a minor repair.

I think 90 square feet is the limit before the haz-mat pros have to get involved on asbestos.
I could be wrong.


KT

xlnt. point


cost me $30 to get mine tested (it was neg. BTW)

I won't argue with your credentials, but residential work gets a bye on some things. I studied the recent EPA lead laws to the extent that I read the entire 100 page document. I can't say that I have done that much regarding AB.

The newest residential (I have to emphasize residential, not refinery) laws permit owners to work on their own homes in whatever manner they please w/o breaking any laws. This is not the case for a contractor working in the home.

There may be similar provisions in the EPA asbestos code to allow an owner to work in his home (not his rental) and do asbestos work including abatement. He probably needs to disclose the fact if and when he sells, but that's another day.

The fact is, flooring can be a hazard and it can be handled w/o any drama with some awareness and a little common sense. This is not a high rise nor a factory. Trekkor is right, pull up the sheets and get rid of the whole thing.



Don't call out the asbestos marshals just yet.

Sammy,

When did AB become illegel to use in the US for flooring?

I went ahead and ripped up the rest of the particle board, which turned out to be a good idea because there was a small section of rot by the sliding door.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335214313.jpg

keep that wood floor!

It will never match any new wood strips etc. you put down so you may want to go with some sort of contrasting material. I like Marmoleum.

1977? Not sure, that's my best guess.

They still use it in some exhaust piping from water heaters and such, but it's encapsulated pretty darned good.

I'm gonna have to take your word on that Milt, you know the residential side much better than I do.

Maybe I'm used to going overboard because the regulators are so gung ho about hanging industrial plants of every single regulation they can dream up.

Real linoleum ALWAYS has asbestos.....but nobody has a regulatory authority unless it's more than 160 sqyaure feet.

Thanks again for the help - the project is moving along smoothly (I probably just jinxed it...)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335316166.jpg

Love the floor on the right...left side...not so much.

Personally, I like the look of the old stuff too. However, it has been abused and carpeted over several times over the years, and I don't think it was viable. Not only that, but only part of the house still has the old flooring, so one way or the other, the whole thing would need to be re-done.

That's prolly where I got the 1977 from.

According to this site, one company was still using AB in vinyl flooring until 1980.

Asphalt-based asbestos floor tiles and plastic or vinyl-based asbestos flooring were popular in the U.S. in the 1940's - 1970's and were produced by some manufacturers (Armstrong) as late as 1980. Some asbestos-containing flooring products were manufactured (we estimate) as early as the late 1920's.
How to identify asbestos floor tiles or asbestos-containing sheet flooring - Asbestos Visual Identification in buildings: How to find recognize, and identify asbestos or asbestos-containing materials in buildings by visual inspection methods - text a

Asbestos was banned then there was a lawsuit, they relaxed the ban.....now they advertise the use in products with the term "With Chrysotile Fibers"....look it up.

BTW....I wrote this and enforced it....this is the minimal Federal Law. Local regs can be more stringent....

http://www.sbcapcd.org/biz/asbestos.htm