How to hande a counter offer?

[Rick Lee]

I have an aggressive recruiter on me and one of the positions he wants me to apply for sounds promising. The other one is with a competitor, which I think is an unhealthy company and liable to be bought out by ours. Even if I broke the non-compete and current employer left me alone, I'd be in trouble if current employer buys them out.

Anyway, I have an interview with another place, totally outside my current line of work, but still in sales and with much, much more earning potential, even about 40% more of a base salary.

The recruiter just sent me a bunch of PDFs on how to resign and why to never entertain a counter offer. He wrote in the email that, if I would even consider a counter offer from my current employer, to call him right away. I find this a little troubling.

About 10 yrs. ago I took a great counter offer when I went to quit, it worked very well for me and I still work for the same guy. Although we're owned by a much larger company now, I have no reason to think he'd not make an attractive counter offer in good faith and not view me as a traitor if I were to accept.

I know this is all premature, but just wanted to know how the Pelican brain trust sees this stuff, as things could get moving quickly after tomorrow and I have a three week trip to Europe coming up soon too.

[968rz]

The recruiter is no doubt trying to protect his commission by saying to NEVER accept a counter offer, accepting one makes HIM nothing but it does improve your pay.

[nota]

''The other one is with a competitor, which I think is an unhealthy company and liable to be bought out by ours. Even if I broke the non-compete and current employer left me alone, I'd be in trouble if current employer buys them out. ''

offer to go there a be a ''spy'' for your current gig
so if bought out your a hero

recruiter gets paid to place YOU
not get you a better / best deal

really he is a salesman
your raise is not a commission for HIM

[masraum]

Do a search too, this subject has come up many times.

I think it's probably a crap shoot. I think accepting could work out well (obviously based on your first hand exp), but I think it could also work out poorly in certain circumstances.

As stated, I'm sure the headhunter is protecting his rep and commission.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yep. Being in sales yourself I'd think you'd see right through this. The recruiter doesn't care about you - he's simply looking to ink a deal, collect his percentage and move on. Getting caught in the middle of negotiations that benefit you don't work to his advantage (quite the opposite possibly) so he's trying to shove you into doing something for his benefit. I'd tell him you need time to think about it and at the end of the day YOU (not he) will be calling the shots.

I can't stand pushy salespeople and have little tolerance for them. Recruiters included.

[Rick Lee]

Of course, I know the recruiter is protecting his commission check. Why should he be looking out for me when I'm not the one paying him? I totally get that and have no problem with it. But the PDF he sent on why to never accept a counter does make some good points.

When I played this game about 10 yrs. ago and won, it was a very small company where I had constant access to the top people whose offices were a few ft. from my own. These days it's a big company with a lot of departments and politics scattered around the world, constant shifts in direction and leadership goals and not such a well-oiled machine as where the boss and I once were.

I'm sure my boss has authority to offer what it'd take to get me to stay and he'd not be personally offended or view me as a traitor. But what happens if he leaves or gets promoted to a different role? I know he's protected several of us on his team from getting laid off or fired in the past. I personally think my boss's boss will be fired in the near future. So I'm not too worried about him. I'm just worried about how long I'd be dependent on my boss's protection after threatening to leave to get a good counter. And let's face it - that's what it is. I've asked for raises before and been stalled. If I say I'm leaving, I know he'll take it seriously and want to counter.

[biosurfer1]

What are some of the valid points on the PDF's?

And FWIW, I also believe that PD is nothing more than him trying to protect his commission.

[aigel]

IMHO in 90% of all cases a counter is only given for damage control. The minute you accept the counter, they will start looking for your replacement. They know you are unreliable and at a minimum, you may be damaged goods in the future if it comes to promotions and added responsibilities. I have witnessed many cases when people were playing the counter game and fell on their nose very hard down the line with it.

Of course you can't generalize and have to take into account your situation. I also think it depends if you entertain a counter or are actively fishing for it. Absolutely don't fish or ask for it.

HTH?

Good Luck!

G

[Rick Lee]

Before I even opened the PDF, the recruiter's email note "If you would consider a counter offer....STOP NOW and call me." sort of caught my eye. Obviously, he doesn't want to put his credibility with his client on the line if he thinks I could just be looking for leverage to use for a counter. Another PDF he sent explains how to submit one's resignation, to make it firm, short, sweet and, again very firm..... probably to kill any thoughts of a counter. Does he think I've never quit a job before?

The PDF on counters lists a few anonymous anecdotes where someone took a counter and then was first to be let go as soon as a merger or mgt. shakeup happened. It goes on to say how treacherous you could be viewed by your mgr., blah, blah. It's almost obnoxious, but I understand where the recruiter is coming from. Honestly, unless this job sounds like a home run, I might use the offer (if I get one) to get a counter out of my boss. That's just how he rolls. He'll never ever come to one of us and say, "I think you deserve a raise or a promotion." You only get it from him if he thinks you're serious about leaving. I'd rather not play this game, but that's how he rolls. He probably also knows I'm pretty happy working from home and making decent money for AZ, which isn't a great job market.

[flatbutt]

As a hiring manager I never recommend a counter offer. If you're unhappy working for me you need to go. As for myself I'ne never accepted a counter offer, Once I decide to go, I'm gone.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

As a hiring manager I never recommend a counter offer. If you're unhappy working for me you need to go. As for myself I'ne never accepted a counter offer, Once I decide to go, I'm gone.

The problem is that I'm very happy in my job except for the fact that it's never going to pay more than I'm making and I have to bring in 15-18% more revenue each year to make the same money I made the previous year. There's no income growth potential here. Otherwise, I love the job, the co-workers and the customers.

My boss's revenue quotas for our team do not change because he loses people. He's currently covering for another team member out on maternity leave and another two team members (who are married to each other) are looking to transfer back to the midwest where they have family before she has her baby. So the last thing in the world my boss needs right now is for someone who's fully up and running and currently far exceeding his revenue goals for the year to want to leave. I'm in a very good spot to get a generous counter IF I have really have another good job to go to. I would never give anything like an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to lose. And I wouldn't ask for a counter either.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

So the last thing in the world my boss needs right now is for someone who's fully up and running and currently far exceeding his revenue goals for the year to want to leave. I'm in a very good spot to get a generous counter IF I have really have another good job to go to. I would never give anything like an ultimatum I wasn't prepared to lose. And I wouldn't ask for a counter either.

Well, he may have no chance other than to counter. But how will it make him feel?

G

[Rick Lee]

It'll make him feel a lot better than losing a valuable member of his team and then having to start the hiring, training and ramping up process again will. It's not like I'm getting to pick when these opportunities fall into my lap and my personal career and financial goals revolve around his personnel situation.

[aigel]

I would feel blackmailed. But I am also someone that puts in for raises for employees. You probably know the situation better. This isn't the same guy from 10 years ago, is it?

G

[Rick Lee]

Yes, it's the same boss I've had since 2001. The last raise I got was when we were bought out by our biggest competitor in late 2006. I started pushing for one in Jan. 2011 and was told it would be dependent on our new(est) review process, which, of course, didn't shake out until Sept. No raises for anyone, just some more incentives if you made your annual goal, which almost no one does and is 15-18% higher each year than the previous one. Oh, and we weren't even told our 2011 goals until end of March 2011.

This is the same boss I did get a great counter out of around 2002-03 when I went to give my notice after having another better paying job offer fall into my lap and not making close to what my boss said I'd make if I was any good (and always doubled my quotas).

My frustration here is that there is no way to make serious money in this position. Just about every account manager who blows out his/her goal leaves the following year because they have to do that well plus 15-18% the next year just to get back to 100% of goal. It's nearly impossible and it drives away the best performers. It's sad to say that I'm really better off longterm by always finishing just below goal.

[aigel]

That actually sounds like you DO need to find a new job. I always thought the advantage in sales was that your upside potential was much higher than in most other jobs.

G

[VincentVega]

plus 15-18% the next year

Isnt that pretty much the same no matter where you are? I ran into similar issues, comp plan is never there to pay you more $$.

You've been there a long time, time to get hungry again and plant your flag somewhere else?

Good luck.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

Isnt that pretty much the same no matter where you are? I ran into similar issues, comp plan is never there to pay you more $$.

You've been there a long time, time to get hungry again and plant your flag somewhere else?

Good luck.

I don't know. I have worked here too long. In past commissioned sales jobs, "your review was your W2." There wasn't really a quota, but you couldn't survive long on no base salary if you weren't closing deals all the time. Seems to me, if you're bringing in $200k plus in new revenue (above last year's full goal) year after year, you should see some reward for that.

[Mothy]

Having staff headhunted/poached out from a team is quite a different story from team members who go looking for new opportunities and using that to leverage a raise.

As an employer, if one of my team came to me and said he had been approached by xxx offering 18% more to go work for them, I'd look into it and review the rates we pay compared to the market etc. If it was a valuable member, I'd do what I could to keep them. Happy employees don't often go looking.

However, if they did it off their own bat, then I'd wish them well and send them on their way. Chances are that the reason they were not happy was not the pay level - it just made it more bearable.

Best of luck - I hope it works out for you.

Tim

[s_morrison57]

40% more of a base salary, that would clinch the deal for me, I've had counter offers before and never took them. My thought was if I'm such a valued person then why did it take my quitting to show this, thanks but no thanks.
I had a contract once and was told that the client was going to steal one of my employee's, these guys were kinda laughing about it, "ya we're gonna take Godfrey away from you, we're going to pay him 100/day (this is the 3rd world and 100/day is 4 times the average) I told them they could try but I don't think its going to happen cause I pay him 200/day. their smiles were gone and we were the ones laughing. 12 years later Godfrey still works for me at 325/day, he makes the yearly average for wages every month, he's not going anywhere.
Money talks, I'd jump all over that 40% increase in a heartbeat.
Finn