Used Vehicle Questioon: Ford vs Chrysler vs Other

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

OK, this is the in-laws and they live in a small town area of Eastern Oklahoma so there are not too many used or new car options local to them.

Basically they want a comfortable vehicle with decent fuel economy and reliability. Their old vehicle was totaled in an accident and was a 2009 Lincoln. Things like BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, and the like are automatically out. There will be no mechanics within several hours drive.

So what they have turned up is:

2007 Chrysler Sebring 4cy, coupe, automatic, ~70,000 miles, $4500 firm (neighbors car)

2005 F150 Lariat V-8 (unknown which V-8 or transmission) Auto, lots of bells and whistles, just over 76,000 miles, ~$19,000 asking at dealership

2009 Taurus Limited V-6 Auto, ~17,600 miles, tons of bells and whistles, back-up camera, heated seats, ~$22,000 asking at dealership (dealer stated it was a demo and had major hail damage (broken rear window and sunroof) as well as dents all over the body, took four months to repair)


What do yall think? I think the price on the Sebring is good but do not necessarily trust it. The Fords feel overpriced to me. Both are clean in appearance according to the in-laws but I do not trust that either.

I'm thinking they (hitting 70) really need the Taurus more than any of the others. They have a 1-ton Dodge and two Model As. I am thinking the Taurus is overpriced by up to $4,000. What do yall think?

Any other choices/thoughts? I'm trying to get them to look at new Civics or Accords. It would be nice for them to be sub $20K as they can pay cash for that but would have to take out a loan for more.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Have them take a look at the Ford Focus 5 door. Nice hatchback loaded for $25k

[Instrument 41]

I agree with you, both Fords are over priced. But if there isn't a lot of choices where they live.....If you could help them look elsewhere where there is more choices and/or competition they'd probably fair better.

[Scott Douglas]

How far away is the nearest Honda dealership?
I vote for a one or two year old Accord. Get a certified car and it'll have a longer warrantee but I doubt they'd have to take advantage of that.
Even a fully loaded one should fall into their price range. Get the V-6 as it gets great mileage and can out run tornadoes no problem.

[RWebb]

who is the best dealer there? with the best service dept.?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by RWebb

who is the best dealer there? with the best service dept.?

Agreed.

Sensible consideration sine they are not encumbered by brand loyalty.

FWIW, my experience with Sebrings is not good. I would avoid. YMMV.

[MRM]

The Taurus is the perfect car for them. I would get one or a used Lincoln for them. The Sebring at $4,000 will be a worse value than any $40,000 car you can buy. They shouldn't take it if it was free. But the Taurus they're looking at is way overpriced.

Call or PM Eric (Kaisen) and have him buy one at auction for you. I've bought four cars through him and it works great. Distance is no problem. He bought my last one in Pittsburgh and delivered it to me in Minneapolis. He charges a flat fee of $1,000 over the actual cost but he can find the best cars at the best prices, and you'll get it for less, even with his commission since he's buying wholesale. His buying service isn't for everyone, but your parents are the perfect customers. Check him out. You won't find anyone with better general car knowledge.

[LWJ]

What MRM said. I have not used Kaisen but damn! That guy knows his cars!

Larry

[kaisen]

Mike and Larry, thank you!

The Chrysler is a good "deal" at $4500, and if that's all they could afford I think you'd be hard pressed to find more car for that money. But if they can afford more, they should buy a better car.

Do they want/need a pickup? Doesn't really sound like it. Fuel economy, and ingress/egress aren't fun.

The Taurus would be a decent idea, but that particular Taurus should be avoided. It's easily retail money, and for a car with a negative history. If they like the Taurus, just find another one....they're everywhere.

Under $20K, even total incl tax, buys you a LOT of car. What are their real needs? Do you need to consider how easy it is to get in/out with their age (or in the future)? Do they drive a lot? Drive just around town? In the snow? With passengers? Arthritis? Nearest dealer?

You can buy another 2009 Lincoln MKZ (fancy Ford Fusion) with lower miles for less than $20K total.

If you were really set on a Honda Civic or Accord, buy a brand new one. I think there are better choices, however. And how close is the nearest Honda dealer? Is there a good independent Honda shop near them?

[kaisen]

Just an example:

2009 Lincoln MKZ
Tuxedo Black / Charcoal perforated leather
17,970 miles
Heated and Cooled front seats, moonroof, Sync, etc, etc
Was $34,150 new
Here's the actual window sticker: http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=3LNHM26TX9R620996
11 months or 32K miles of bumper-to-bumper warranty left, even longer on powertrain

Not flawless, but typical for a 3 year old car
I can buy it "now" in Minneapolis for $17,600 wholesale from Ford Credit (lease return)
Even with everything, delivered to their door, it would be well under $20K

[onewhippedpuppy]

Eric's comments are spot on regarding that Taurus, why buy a dime a dozen car at max retail with a negative history?

I would run like hell from the Sebring, in my opinion they are simply terrible cars. My dad was a lifetime MOPAR man until he had a Sebring convertible, after which time he swore never to buy another one of their products again (and hasn't).

[Stutzdriver]

ANY Chrysler of that vintage....Run as far away as fast as you can!

Taurus could be the right car, just not that particular one...look online there are lots of good 1 owner cars.

The MKZ shown above is an excellent option as they have a history with Lincoln, I have personally sold 2 of these in the past 60 days (we took both in as trades on new Audi's)

[porsche4life]

I like Dodge trucks, but everything else chrysler makes is pretty well junk, and the sebring is the bottom of the junk heap....

[red-beard]

The "New GM" as part of the bankruptcy of "Old GM" accepted full responsibility and liability for the "Old GM" models. "New Chrysler" had written into its transfers that it is not accepting responsibility for anything but direct liability. Basically, if there is a serious defect in the car, you can sue for the defect, not any other damages.

GM wanted this provision as well, but it was forced to remove the language. Chrysler is basically not standing behind the old products. I wouldn't touch one of those cars....

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Thanks Guys! I've passed along the advice.

Eric,

I have tried to talk them into paying you for your services. Hard headed lot! Anyway, IF they decide to stay away from the Sebring I'll get in touch with you. They have the settlement money from their Lincoln being totalled coming in this week.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Groesbeck Hurricane

Eric,

I have tried to talk them into paying you for your services. Hard headed lot!

It's pretty tough to think of "paying" someone for their service, when most of the time it's built into a price.

Put it this way. That Lincoln has a NADA retail book value of $25,175. I can "sell" it to them, delivered to their door, for $19,600 total. They'll still pay sales tax, plates, and title fees. $5,500 under book.

OR

They can buy that Taurus Limited at the dealer. NADA retail book value of $21,100 (including Navigation, which I assumed). They can buy it, with known significant hail damage history, for $22,000.... or less if they negotiate. They'll still pay sales tax, plates, and title fees. But they start at $900 over book!

I'm not going to have any hurt feelings when anyone chooses a different option than buying a car with me. My advice is always free. Just happy to help.

[madmmac]

Is that Lincoln dash as bad in real life as it is in the picture?


The horror.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Eric,

Believe me, I KNOW you are good and your services are worth their weight!

Last night they started putting pencil to paper and thought, hey if we only spend $5-8K then we can pay off the equipment loan and have fewer payments overall. I hope they do not do it but I bet they buy the Sebring. The neighbor has had it for about three years and only had to pull fluids, filters, and tires. No mechanical breakdowns in about 20,000 miles. Maybe it is one of the good ones????

They are NOT going down the Taurus route with that one listed above. Talked them out of it, took a couple of hours. Same with pick-up.

IF I can get them to thinking about next year when things start breaking on the Sebring versus several years on a newer model then I will be in touch with you!

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by madmmac

Is that Lincoln dash as bad in real life as it is in the picture?


The horror.

It looks like they stuck everything on a sheet of plywood painted black.

That might be part of the reason it has poor resale value.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Groesbeck Hurricane

services are worth their weight!

Last night they started putting pencil to paper and thought, hey if we only spend $5-8K then we can pay off the equipment loan and have fewer payments overall. I hope they do not do it but I bet they buy the Sebring. The neighbor has had it for about three years and only had to pull fluids, filters, and tires. No mechanical breakdowns in about 20,000 miles. Maybe it is one of the good ones????

I'd agree with your parents.... that's a great idea!

Is the Sebring the "right" $5-8K car? I don't really know. But as I said before, it would be pretty hard to find a newer / lower mile $4500 car.

Perspective: I just sold a 2001 Honda Civic LX Coupe with 145K miles for $4500 and had people lined up to buy it (no kidding). Any good $5000 Honda is going to be a decade old with well over 100K miles.

The Sebring is six years newer with half the miles for the same price. What's the worst case scenario? It blows a motor and it's only worth $1500 as-is. Their "risk" is about $3K. The Lincoln (or any other 2009 model car/truck) will depreciate that much in the next couple years, plus the opportunity-cost of having that much more money tied up. In real terms, it's the interest that would have accrued on that equipment loan in that amount of time.

With diligence the Sebring will be fine for many more miles. And it's a good deal. If they like it, and it fits their needs, it's a smart purchase. Three years from now, they'll recoup a large part of that initial $4500 investment. Right now, a nice 100K mile 2003 is still a $3500 car. There's a curve at the bottom of the market. It's hard to find a decent car of any brand or miles for under $3K.

I hope it works well for them, and puts them in a better place financially!