what to tell my son about pushing back on a bully

[twobone]

Our school system has a no tolerance bullying policy.

My 10 year old son is a quiet kid and thankfully is part of the "cool crowd", but like myself, he is small and kind of hangs around the fringes.

This makes him susceptible to mild bullying.

So today, we got a call that he pushed back on a kid who was taunting him and pushing him in the playground.

I was never very good at standing my ground, so I'm happy that he is standing up for himself.

Of course the school system is going to expect that my response is that he should have gone straight to a teacher instead of using physical force to assert himself.

I don't want to contradict the school system, but I do think he was right to stand his ground.

Thoughts on this advice?:

-You were right to stand your ground
-Pushing back is once or twice and telling him to back off is OK, but if its getting out of hand, thats when you step away and go to a teacher


The idea of running straight to the teacher may sound good in a zero tolerance brochure, but it doesn't work in real life and does not teach him about self esteem and personal rights, correct?

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by twobone

Our school system has a no tolerance bullying policy.

My 10 year old son is a quiet kid and thankfully is part of the "cool crowd", but like myself, he is small and kind of hangs around the fringes.

This makes him susceptible to mild bullying.

So today, we got a call that he pushed back on a kid who was taunting him and pushing him in the playground.

I was never very good at standing my ground, so I'm happy that he is standing up for himself.

Of course the school system is going to expect that my response is that he should have gone straight to a teacher instead of using physical force to assert himself.

I don't want to contradict the school system, but I do think he was right to stand his ground.

Thoughts on this advice?:

-You were right to stand your ground
-Pushing back is once or twice and telling him to back off is OK, but if its getting out of hand, thats when you step away and go to a teacher


The idea of running straight to the teacher may sound good in a zero tolerance brochure, but it doesn't work in real life and does not teach him about self esteem and personal rights, correct?

You told him right, if he doesn't learn to stand up for himself now, he never will, plus, by standing up, he can get the respect of the so-called Bully who is testing him..

[vash]

ouch..touchy subject. kid that runs to the teacher gets branded as crybaby snitch forever.

my mom told me to run to the teacher..get help.

my dad told me: son don't forget your elbows.

i was 4'11" entering high school. tiny. i got the advice from my parents when i told them kids kept getting in my face. literally..3" from my face calling me names, taunting me.

i didnt listen to either parent..cant really remember how it all went away, but it did. thankfully, i grew. alot.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by twobone

.....


The idea of running straight to the teacher may sound good in a zero tolerance brochure, but it doesn't work in real life and does not teach him about self esteem and personal rights, correct?

I agree with that.

My guidelines for my kids, they can never lay hands on the bully first. If it's verbal then go get an authority figure. If it gets physical then I expect them to defend themselves to the point that they can extricate themselves from the situation and go get an authority figure.

Unfortunately with bullies they often times need the push back. They prey on the perceived weak. They will generally leave you alone if they know that you will stand your ground.

I was a little guy, still only 5'8" and 150. I got picked on here and there. I made a decision, I'd rather get my ass kicked than take **** from anyone.

Got my ass kicked a few times but also kicked some ass myself.

Not all bullies are as tough as they think they are.

[gprsh924]

My dad told me that I could never start the fight, but I could sure as hell finish it.

Only happened a time or two.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I agree with that.

My guidelines for my kids, they can never lay hands on the bully first. If it's verbal then go get an authority figure. If it gets physical then I expect them to defend themselves to the point that they can extricate themselves from the situation and go get an authority figure.

Unfortunately with bullies they often times need the push back. They prey on the perceived weak. They will generally leave you alone if they know that you will stand your ground.

I was a little guy, still only 5'8" and 150. I got picked on here and there. I made a decision, I'd rather get my ass kicked than take **** from anyone.

Got my ass kicked a few times but also kicked some ass myself.

Not all bullies are as tough as they think they are.

You think you were little, I only weighed 134lbs in college, but like you learned to stand my ground at an early age (in the South, a name like Byron, a runt with Coke bottle glasses, naw, I was never a target) as my Farther also taught me to stand my ground, and it really didn't hurt that my BIL was a 3rd Degree and an instructor...

[Seahawk]

I would tell the school officials that my son felt threatened and didn't have an opportunity to seek help. He did the best he could given the schools lack of oversight.

I would then ask them what they are going to do to prevent this from occurring again.

How is this your son's fault? That is the theme for your exchange with the "school".

Me? I'd get the bullies name and set up a meeting with his parents. That is the only way you are going to really know what you are dealing with.

[andyt11]

Bullies soon find someone else to pick on once you make a bit of a fool of them and push back. I think you have given reasonable advice. I'd agree with Byron too. A little push here and there will prevent it continuing in the future and escalating. The reality is that running to teacher at this point will only make it worse and the teacher wont always be there.

I'd also agree with the "My dad told me that I could never start the fight, but I could sure as hell finish it" stand point too.

[red-beard]

Kid needs to push back. Bullies only stop when they are handed more of their own medicine than they can handle.

Andyt11 +1

[rusnak]

Stand you ground now. Back your kid.

[twobone]

I have not heard the full story yet. I was looking for advice before my dining table chat tonight....thanks guys! However the "other kid" has emotional control issues (perhaps ADD?) and seems to think its fun to spend the day at the office.

I'm going to back up my kid and let him know that I trust his judgement on what is "right and wrong".

Its funny how fast kids learn about the "lord of the flies" playground rules.

[968rz]

If you're worried about the schools response to you kids beating the bullies butt teach your kids to never start the fight and never hit first (stated before) and to say "I feared for my safety so I defended myself" which if he's being bullied is true; plus most (if not all) laws state you can defend yourself in such cases.

[mikester]

We it me; I have a 7 year old who has recently expressed this concern about older kids in fact. Nothing directly but he is worried about it because he sees it happening to the kids in the grade he is going into next year.

My first question for the school is what are they going to do in a situation where my son is in danger of being assaulted and what are his best options to get help in a situation where he can't really simply 'run to a teacher'.

That's a loaded question. In that situation - which is THE situation there is no good answer and a zero tolerance policy is simply ineffective. Even if my son is defending himself he's going to be in trouble for fighting and will be punished under the zero tolerance policy.

My next question is "will the video surveillance tapes be made available to me so that I can see exactly what happened?" I know the school has the cameras deployed and I know they monitor them to some degree. I want to know what access I have to that information in the event this situation occurs.

If I don't get access to the video then I will give my kid's word a very heavy weight in a situation like this unless there is an eye witness adult. If that is the case though - then my kid had someone to go to in the form of a scream for help or something.

I was small and bullied as well. My dad told me 'if you can't win, fight dirty' and of course not to throw the first punch but don't let his land. My son's a little aggressive but also kind of small and I think will be a target for bullying. It's going to happen regardless - someone is going to pick on the boy (mine or yours) and they need to be taught how to handle it. My most effective tool as a kid was simply to walk away and I did it often. My second most effective tool was to be good friends with very large kids. That worked too. Third, like dad said - if it comes to it - fight dirty. Twice that happened, I was suspended both times because I left those larger kids on the ground crying. Once I took the first hit, got up and made sure that dude was going to be vomiting. The second time the bully missed and took a kick square where I intended it and he too was giving up his lunch.

When you can, walk away. When you can't, make sure the cameras can see you and land second, hard and where it counts.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Stand you ground now. Back your kid.

^this

My son plays team sports he is generally one of the shortest and lightest kids. He is also painfully shy and has trouble with verbal communication skills so he is NOT in the cool/popular crowd. He had some bullying in elementary school so we enrolled him in a local studio where he enjoyed Muay Thai and grappling training. Fast forward to 8th grade and a larger kid who has been pressing Zack for a week+ starts the smack talk in a basketball game followed with a shove and tackle.

Our standing house rule is to never initiate any conflict - especially physical. But if forced to defend yourself then do so.

Zack got the reverse and was on the bully and started landing elbows. Playground supervisor pulled him off and both were marched to principal. Since Zack got a couple elbows in he was suspended for a week - the bully no suspension cause the super did not see who initiated contact.

We had several talks with the school principal who also happens to be an ex Marine. His hands were tied but off the record he said he would want his son to act as Zack did. We rewarded Zack with trips to the beach and movies.

[billybek]

Being an old dad of a 4 year old, I wonder how my old school ways will affect the way that I handle the same problem that you are having.
My dad was a boxer and I boxed when I was young and wrestled until the end of high school. We handled things a little bit different back in the day.
I would recommend getting the lad some martial arts training. It is good to know how to handle people and also good to have the training (and restraint) to know when to handle them.
I think that it is great that you trust that your son used good judgment in this...

[Rodsrsr]

IMO your son did right in standing his ground and you should be proud of him. I used to get bullied as a kid and am basically a non-confrontational guy despite my still active training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Now I walk away because I chose to. I did however submit a 230 lb marine in a power arm bar a few days ago while out with my friends. He just wanted to test me. All in fun.....

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I would tell the school officials that my son felt threatened and didn't have an opportunity to seek help. He did the best he could given the schools lack of oversight.

I would then ask them what they are going to do to prevent this from occurring again.

How is this your son's fault? That is the theme for your exchange with the "school".

Me? I'd get the bullies name and set up a meeting with his parents. That is the only way you are going to really know what you are dealing with.

Paul is using the technique where you put the school on the defensive. Nothing wrong with that unless you run up against someone who knows that game better. IOW, fine for a guy like Paul, but they might flip the table on you. When I see that technique being used on me, I immediately go back on offense and turn that table around one more time.

AFA setting up a meeting with the other student and family outside of the school, that won't happen with the school's sanction. I'd wait to see if there is any reoccurrence. If there is, I'd bring it all to them asking for a formal hearing before the school superintendent. If I was not happy at that, I'd contact the school board and file a formal complaint.

By formal, I mean everything is in writing and the meeting is transcribed.

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

My dad told me that I could never start the fight, but I could sure as hell finish it.

Only happened a time or two.

+1!

Happened to me on the playground. Another kid (a teacher's son) was bouncing a basketball off the back of my head while we were in line to come in from recess. Told him 3 times to stop, then his body hit the ground and his face met the gravel. Principal (my nextdoor neighbor) had to call my Dad (standard procedure), and they both chuckled a bit about it since this kid was doing it to just about everyone with what he thought was diplomatic immunity. Of course, after that incident the kid never picked on anyone else as long as I remember

[mikester]

It is also a great idea to be involved in your kids school as an on campus volunteer. I'm not sure how it'll work in middle and high school but my wife and I both volunteer at the school and are considered 'go to' people for areas we are subject matter experts in. My wife is heavily involved in the PTA and I help out with technology issues and art classes. The principals and teachers know us - I'm not saying we will get preferential treatment but the existing positive relationship won't hurt.

We are known on campus and in the community. Our kids are known as ours too and we know quite a few of the neighborhood kids who go to my son's school. This community knowledge I believe helps us keep an eye on things.

My son is a cub scout and so he is known to other older scouts as a younger scout. This knowledge affords him some protection from those older scouts who go to his school. I have older kids on our street who also attend my son's school in the higher grades. I know them well enough and keep them 'on my side' so that they too watch out for their friends (my sons).

I really do believe it takes a village and my village is alright.

[MMARSH]

Had this same issue with my daughter at school, who was having issues with another girl. Her mother and I have different opinions on this. Her mother told her to tell a teacher. I told her the same as some others here. " if you ever start a fight, you are in big trouble, but regardless of the school policy, you can defend yourself and I will never be upset with you for doing that.

Later, the other kid hit my daughter again....my daughter defended herself as I told her and she hasn't had any more issues with the other kid or any other kid since. Yes, she got in trouble with the school, missing a day of school was something i was willing to except. She's a good kid and gets over a 4.0 GPA.