Steam Locomotives: The Latest in Environmentally Advanced Technology?

[porwolf]

Are Steam Locomotives fired by biofuel the latest advance in environmentally sensitive and efficient transportaion?

Biofuel steam locomotive tomorrow

[daepp]

No.

[DanielDudley]

A modern train can move 2000 pounds 400 miles on a gallon of diesel.

Trains have a place in my future. So far, nothing can touch them for efficiency except dirigibles.

[sc_rufctr]

Certainly romantic but it's not going to happen IMO.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by porwolf

Are Steam Locomotives fired by biofuel the latest advance in environmentally sensitive and efficient transportaion?

Biofuel steam locomotive tomorrow

An open cycle steam engine?

No.

[944Larry]

No, but they are cool!!!!!!!!!!!

[lm6y]

Probably not. But on a side note, one of the guys at work is trying to convert an air compressor pump into a steam engine to drive a generator to help not rely on the "grid" so much. Not sure how well it will work, but it ought to be interesting if he doesn't kill himself.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by lm6y

Probably not. But on a side note, one of the guys at work is trying to convert an air compressor pump into a steam engine to drive a generator to help not rely on the "grid" so much. Not sure how well it will work, but it ought to be interesting if he doesn't kill himself.

OH, that can be done. The issue is that most steam engines do not cycle very fast. You will either need a generator with a lot of poles or a gear box. The real issue is speed/load control to keep the system frequency in the 57.6-62.4 HZ region.

[pavulon]

Can anyone elaborate on the article statement that this locomotive is the largest of its kind? There were/are much larger steam locomotives...I saw one of these on display in Green Bay last summer:

[lane912]

imagine building it with 3600ish poles so that it only had to complete a rotation every minute-

[lane912]

would much larger, slower moving parts be safer?

[944Larry]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Can anyone elaborate on the article statement that this locomotive is the largest of its kind? There were/are much larger steam locomotives...I saw one of these on display in Green Bay last summer:

I guess this is a "Big Boy". It was the biggest ever built. I saw one in Cheyenne Wyoming. Huge!!!!!!!!!!

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Can anyone elaborate on the article statement that this locomotive is the largest of its kind? There were/are much larger steam locomotives...I saw one of these on display in Green Bay last summer:

"largest" is open to interpretation. It is definitely up there, especially if you exclude trains that didn't make production.

Btw, Union Pacific still operates a 4-6-64 Challenger steam locomotive, a similar locomotive, just with a pair less driving wheels per articulating set, and larger wheels for higher speed.

With tighter manufacturing tolerances available today, it would be interesting to see if it could be made a viable option. A real issue of the day, was maintenance on the more complicated, more fuel efficient designs.

What I love about the older steam locomotives, are the exposed drive trains, its mesmerizing to see one in action. For low water areas, there were also a few steam trains built with condensers to recapture the steam, convert it back to liquid for reuse.

If you add the word "surviving", then the Big Boy may be the winner. A lot of the big steam trains ended up as scrap metal.

[daepp]

I saw the UP's articulated mallet come over and down Cajon Pass some 18 years ago. That was a machine to behold!

There is a cab-forward Big Boy at the California Train Museum in Sacramento - another articulated double boiler engine. They actually took the cabs off the rear and transferred them to the front. A Baldwin I think. Seems the snow tunnels were so long in the Sierras that the engineers would pass out from asphyxiation and smoke - so they put the cab on the front!

Also, the thing is so sophisticated for it's time that it won some prestigious engineering award.

[afterburn 549]

The Train museum in Oshkosh Wi has at least one "Big Boy" in there....There were several built
to haul over the Rockies .
It is HUGE ! The wheels are like 6' high
Very romantic
very BIG
very *****n

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Can anyone elaborate on the article statement that this locomotive is the largest of its kind? There were/are much larger steam locomotives...I saw one of these on display in Green Bay last summer:

The Union Pacific Rairoad had the largest locomotives in the USA. What is shown is a "Big Boy" Additonally they also had a Diesel built by Electromotive called a Double D. Both locos are in Omaha, NB at the Union Pacific Railroad.

[red-beard]

There are times where the external combustion steam engine is more effective than a modern diesel electric: High Altitude. The steam locomotives are not derated with altitude, where recip engines are derated with altitude, unless you run super chargers setup to adjust CR with altitude.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

I saw the UP's articulated mallet come over and down Cajon Pass some 18 years ago. That was a machine to behold!

There is a cab-forward Big Boy at the California Train Museum in Sacramento - another articulated double boiler engine. They actually took the cabs off the rear and transferred them to the front. A Baldwin I think. Seems the snow tunnels were so long in the Sierras that the engineers would pass out from asphyxiation and smoke - so they put the cab on the front!

Also, the thing is so sophisticated for it's time that it won some prestigious engineering award.

All of the later UP articulated engines were technically not "mallets". A true "mallet" is a "compound" engine, wherein the front low pressure cylinders run off of the exhaust steam from the rear, high pressure cylinders. Later articulated engines, like the Big Boys and Challengers, ran high pressure steam to both the front and rear cylinders, directly from the boiler.

None of these were "double boilered" engines. All ran a single boiler. The cab forward engines were on the Southern Pacific, not the Union Pacific, and they were not "Big Boys". Yes, they were built specifically for the long tunnels.

Compound mallet. Notice the size difference between the front and rear cylinders:



Modern compound mallet on the Norfolk and Western, the Y6B. While not "bigger" than the Big Boy, it had more tractive effort available:



A modern simple articulated engine, a Great Norther R2 (which would also out-pull the Big Boy). Notice the front and rear cylinders are the same size:



And, finally, the Southern Pacific cab forward. Also a simple articulated. They didn't so much put the cab on the front as turn the whole darn thing around. Notice the smokebox is on the back and the firebox is on the front:

[wdfifteen]

It would be interesting to see what computerized, variable steam valves could do to efficiency.

[Jeff Higgins]

The Norfolk and Western, having access to virtually free coal, developed some steam turbine locomotives in the '50's. Many were still running into the '60's, long after every other mainline railroad in the U.S. had abandoned steam. These ran just like a diesel electric, with the turbine powering a generator which supplied power to electric traction motors on each axle.



If there is any future in steam locomotives, it would look more like this than the old, traditional reciprocating steam engines. Not nearly as romantic, but far more efficient.