Kwikset locks

[syncroid]

Kwikset is indeed crap! I have Baldwin locks in my home. Funny thing is that a Schlage key goes right into a Balwin lock cylinder. Whats up with that? They must be owned by the same company. The only reason I know this is that my work place lock is Schlage and I have (by habit) inserted my Balwin key into the Schlage cylinder.
A friend of mine has a good saying "Good doors and good fences make a good neighbor, but good doors and good locks keep a man honest. "

[look 171]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I have Schlage on my buidlings because that's what my locksmith sells. I do think the locksmith variety is higher quality than the Lowes/HD version. The locks on my commercial building are Schlage commercial and I am amazed at how flimsy they seemed. The locksmith said, if a burglar hammers on them the cheap parts will break and then they'll never move the bolt. I dunno, they still seem flimsy to me.

Emtek. IMO, they are just as good as Baldwin but not the price. Some of the Baldwin quality have slipped. The mortise locks are still a very good product.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by syncroid

Kwikset is indeed crap! I have Baldwin locks in my home. Funny thing is that a Schlage key goes right into a Balwin lock cylinder. Whats up with that? They must be owned by the same company. The only reason I know this is that my work place lock is Schlage and I have (by habit) inserted my Balwin key into the Schlage cylinder.
A friend of mine has a good saying "Good doors and good fences make a good neighbor, but good doors and good locks keep a man honest. "

Yes, they are the same.

[look 171]

Jado makes a very nice residential lock, but they are just as much as Baldwin. Russwin IMO makes a heck of a commercial lock set.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by dad911

That's very unsafe in a fire. Don't want to be looking for a key in the dark/smoke....

Though I no longer have that type, when I did, and I was home, a key stayed in the deadbolt for this very reason.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Kwikset is crapset. I've been installing locks and hardware for around 30 years. I always had a soft place for Kwikset as one might prefer a Chevy over a Ford. Maybe it was because Kwikset was one of my father's accounts at his ad agency.

I've noticed how security hardware has gotten cheaper and cheaper over the
years. But the last round of "product improvement" has me on the trail looking for better stuff. I don't mean something like Baldwin, which IS good stuff, but something unique and advanced. The junk sold today is very poorly made.

I looked into Yale, but I didn't get a buzz.

Anyway, sloppy locks are bad news:

Yes, but I understand that 90% of the locks out there can be bumped and the higher quality stuff that's made to better tolerances is actually easier to bump.

Lock bumping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

High-quality locks may be more vulnerable to bumping unless they employ specific countermeasures. More precise manufacturing tolerances within the cylinder make bumping easier because the mechanical tolerances of the lock are smaller, which means there is less loss of force in other directions and mostly pins move more freely and smoothly. Locks made of hardened steel are more vulnerable because they are less prone to damage during the bumping process that might cause a cheaper lock to jam.

Locks having security pins (e.g. spool or mushroom pins)—even when combined with a regular tumbler mechanism—generally make bumping somewhat more difficult but not impossible.

Because a bump key must only have the same blank profile as the lock it is made to open, restricted or registered key profiles are not any safer from bumping. While the correct key blanks cannot be obtained legally without permission or registration with relevant locksmith associations, regular keys can be filed down to act as bumpkeys.

Locks that have trap pins that engage when a pin does not support them will jam a lock's cylinder. Another countermeasure is shallow drilling, in which one or more of the pin stacks is drilled slightly shallower than the others. If an attempt is made on a lock that has shallow drilled pin stacks, the bump key will be unable to bump the shallow drilled pins because they are too high for the bump key to engage.

Locks that only use programmable side bars and not top pins are bump proof. Bilock is an example of this technology. Many bump-resistant locks are available which can not be easily opened through the lock bumping method. Baldwin and Schlage are two brands that offer bump resistant locks.[9]

I did work at a bar once that had bump-proof locks. The keys instead of having grooves and being cut were essentially smooth and thicker than a normal key and without the grooves down the sides. they looked like they were drilled and then had what sort of looked like the flints from a lighter inserted at regular intervals. I always assumed that they used small magnets, but I'm not sure.

[intakexhaust]

All are junk as the potmetal castings wear rapidly. From experience in years of home building, Kwikset is the bottom of the heap and for a hope case, I've installed Schlage better grade products. Back to Kwikset... for fun and if you a have a good strong grip on the door knob, you can twist that sucker right off or break it loose. Also, none of them have a long enough deadbolt. During construction, we'd have sets of the cheap brands and after all is completed, painting, etc. new higher quality locksets and doorknobs, etc. would then be installed.

Most residential homes won't have commercial grade steel jamb, steel solid doors and the surrounding framing, studs are wood. Adding a tougher entrance mildly deters but better than going the cheap route. Dumb thieves will attempt and if a little hard on them, will move onto the next but of course, as already mentioned any common dwelling can be broken by a swift kick or crowbar.... or simply break out a window, whatever.

Two ways to look at it. If you have perhaps a second vacation home like a cabin with nominal valuables / furniture, etc. and empty for most of the year, there's no sense in making it super secure. A thief will make more damage to the structure from the break-in. Steel jamb will kink, rip partial out the framing studs, wall board, etc. vs. a cheap wooden jamb. So regardless, with the cheap wood jamb they will enter but with less damage to the door and surrounding structure.

Drifting off the topic a bit but since were talking locks, a few years ago I purchased a $35.00 Master Lock padlock USA made and heavy sheathed cable for my snowmobile. During one of those 200 mile minus 10 degree day rides, the lock as normal was carried in the storage compartment. That night I was ready to lock the sleds together but found the padlock had vibrated apart into pieces! POS!

[Amail]

Two BIL's have been locksmiths for decades. The hot ticket USED to be Medeco. They had a standing offer of $10k to anyone that could pick their lock open. Their keys not only had different height cuts, but different bevel angles on those cuts. These days I don't know who's top dog, but Medeco should at least be on your radar.

[RWebb]

so remove my Kwikset locks and try to find Medeco?

[rusnak]

I have Medeco. Trying to remember the other one, but it's not coming to me. Key says Zeiss Ikon. Have no idea what that means.

[Amail]

Originally Posted by RWebb

so remove my Kwikset locks and try to find Medeco?

I guess it depends on the application. If you need top notch security, you're better off with Medeco than Kwikset. If you need a lot of bedroom door locks, Kwikset's your huckleberry.

We have Schlage on our house.

[RWebb]

thx - I meant for exterior doors

BTW - when I bought this house it had hollow core interior doors being used for all the exterior doors - even the front door!

talk about heat loss and not security

[Amail]

My information is dated, so relative quality between manufacturers has likely changed. You'd be best off asking a locksmith about this. I can pm you my BIL's contact information if you'd like an informed, unbiased opinion.

[lendaddy]

No lock is going to keep someone out of your home, you don't want one that can be beaten without tools but spending much beyond that is silly. If they show up with tools to get in....they'll be getting in no matter what kind of locks you have. They may get frustrated and kick the jamb in or bust a window but they will be getting in.

[Amail]

There are tricks to securing your doors without getting extreme. Terry sells a combination strike plate and barrel with really long screws. The barrel keeps the latch from breaking thru the back of the strike plate, and the screws secure it deep into the stud work beneath the jamb. If you've got a solid core door with a proper strike plate arrangement, you'll need a battering ram to break it down. You won't do it with your shoulder.

I think in a lot of instances, if someone needs to beat repeatedly on the door to break in they're drawing too much attention and will leave. Of course, if they don't give a s**t, they'll find a way to defeat your security.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

No lock is going to keep someone out of your home, you don't want one that can be beaten without tools but spending much beyond that is silly. If they show up with tools to get in....they'll be getting in no matter what kind of locks you have. They may get frustrated and kick the jamb in or bust a window but they will be getting in.

bad advice - this neglects that most thieves or burglars will not want to attract attention by making a lot of noise & commotion

[Mericet]

Originally Posted by E38Driver

At work we used Best locks that were the interchangeable core type.

Dave

I used to work for Best Locks (actually Best Access Systems at the time) and their locks are really well made. Not cheap but well made. You will see their locks on a lot of government and large corporation doors. They are now owned by Stanley and as I left them many years ago, I am not sure if the quality of their stuff is still as good as it used to be.

[rusnak]

Yup, I built a residential subdivision in the '90s and I had to use a Best lock for the fire entrance. The city requires Best in their ordinance. They are so over engineered it's incredible.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by RWebb

bad advice - this neglects that most thieves or burglars will not want to attract attention by making a lot of noise & commotion

Wrong, most break a window or boot a door. Smash and grab is much more common than James Bond tactics. But what would I know.

Spend your money on motion sensor activated video, live to net. Also really loud on site alarms with lights. The latter before the former.

[notmytarga]

My Kwikset entry locks have that pin in the latch that is supposed to stop the latch from being retracted if they are in the jam - and allow it to be pushed in when the door closes. Well, several of the pins have broken or simply fit into the striker plate with the latch. This allows me to easily use a credit card to jimmy them - faster than a key. I've replaced several - the pot metal breaks too easily. I use the deadbolts when I want to add more than this minimal security. Poorly made locks installed sloppily.
As our neighborhood sees more opportunity thefts we have tightened up security - locking the side gate, keeping the garage doors closed and throwing the exterior and garage deadbolts, sliding glass door pins etc. But I still like the opportunity to open the read garage mandoor doors easily when I don't have the carkeys with me.....