Teach me about Vipers

[Racerbvd]

I love the Cobras, but they have to be one of the most impractical cars ever built!

Can you even get a roof for them?

Yes, there is a hard top option, I had a couple of students who owned Super Performance Cobras, the low HP one had a Roush built engine putting out 450HP, tthe other one, also had a Roush(spelling) built engine, but with 605HP and those two cars were about aS much fun as I have ever had driving on the track and these gus had removable hard tops..

Daytona Coupes are sweet too....
Here is a sweet Viper for sale..

Dodge VIPER ACR-X for sale.
Never raced, 383 total miles... Special order Flat black with all options..

Never damaged and in as new condition..

Please call for details

Price is $105,000

Rick DeMan
845 727 3070

[Kirk911SC]

WAY out of my price range!

[Kirk911SC]

So I went to look at (and test drove) a 2000 GTS tonight.

Hmmm......talk about conflicted.

Steel grey with 30,000 miles on it. Mint paint and interior. Stock rims look perfect. New tires on the back. Looks incredible in my book 10/10. Beautiful shape overall.

Seating is very different from the 911....a little tight and tricky to get in compared to the 930. Once you're in, it's not too bad. No dead pedal. Inflatable lumbar support - using a SQUEEZE BULB hanging from the seat HUGE center tunnel.

Acceleration is exactly as described......brutal! Can't help but grin! Would absolutely crush my 930 in a straight line. Brakes seemed strong.

Shifter was pretty good.....industrial and positive.

Car seems to tramline on the road. I imagine because of the tire size. Handling just felt "weird" compared to the 930. Mind you I was only behind the wheel for 10 minutes and was just cruising around. Nothing crazy.

Exhaust and engine sounds (both completely stock) were really disappointing.

Overall an interesting experience. Not sure if I liked it or not.

[Christien]

Sounds like you've made your decision. At the end of the day, it's still Mopar.

You'd be moving from a precision European car to a straight-line American muscle car. I think you'd end up really disliking it and selling it in a year.

Have you considered the other end of the spectrum, something like an Elise?

[slow&rusty]

Squeeze bulb lumbar support first debut'd in 1983 in the Toyota Corolla, Supra and Celica GT-S. Since then various manufacturers and aftermarket seat companies have copied this design.

I can't see a 2000 Viper GTS "crushing" a nicely modified 930, it will certaintly have longer legs and a bit more power and torque. I just Google'd a 2000 GTS which came up with 0-60mp/h in 4secs..not much faster than a 930 with 1 bar of boost a good exhaust, intercooler and some cams.

[Kirk911SC]

The power delivery is entirely different. It's all torque, all the time. Maybe that's why it feels that much quicker? 0-100 mph in 8.6 sec

Maybe my 930 is a bit lazy?

A 6-speed transmission helps as well.

Quick ratio steering felt somewhat numb and without a lot of feedback.

The biggest disappointment was the sound, although I've seen videos with aftermarket exhausts that sound MUCH better.

Love the looks. Cabin feels like a cockpit.

Not quite what I expected overall.

Knife versus sledgehammer.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

Squeeze bulb lumbar support first debut'd in 1983 in the Toyota Corolla, Supra and Celica GT-S. Since then various manufacturers and aftermarket seat companies have copied this design.

That's a really suprising "fact" coming from the king of the three pointed star..... I've had Mercedes dating back the mid seventies that had factory squeeze-bulb lumbar that they called the "orthopedic seat" option. My 1976 Mercedes 6.9 had it, and you'll find many 126s that have it.

FWIW, my parents' 1982 Toyota Celica GT-S had it. Not 1983.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Kirk911SC

Quick ratio steering felt somewhat numb and without a lot of feedback.

Tire size, tire size, tire size

And compared to any 911: all that weight up front

[slow&rusty]

Well Eric...I learned something new (thought I was the three pointed star king..laughing) I did not realize that some of the '70s vintage Benzes had this feature. The Orthopedic seats I have seen on W126s (uber rare) were power sandwiched between the seat and the center console, pic below:
.

I have never seen a W116 six-niner with "pump" lumbar seats

Thinking back yes 1982 is the correct year for the Celica GT-S \ Supra GT-S and the lumbar hand pump.

Back on topic, to keep a 930 paced with a Viper (and any turbo car for that matter), you need to be well into the power band, turbo boiling, cruising at 60mp/h in 5th requires a gear drop (or two!) to be matched to a V10 big displacement all aluminum high compression normally aspirated muscle car.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

Well Eric...I learned something new (thought I was the three pointed star king..laughing) I did not realize that some of the '70s vintage Benzes had this feature. The Orthopedic seats I have seen on W126s (uber rare) were power sandwiched between the seat and the center console, pic below:
.

I have never seen a W116 six-niner with "pump" lumbar seats

My 1982 300SD (126) had driver and passenger manual lumbar squeeze bladders, factory option code w/ MB Tex.

My 1976 6.9 Euro (116) had heated front and rear CLOTH seats and the driver's seat had the lumbar squeeze-bulb. It also had a Webasto gas-fired coolant heater with dial-timer under the armrest, rear window curtains, factory 15" bundts, and a whole bunch of other factory-but-rarely-seen options. It was originally a Swedish diplomatic corp car and meant to be armored or stretched, but never was. It now resides in a collection in Miami.

[flipper35]

For a few years they were the shortest stopping car on the 10 best list at C&D.

Cobra replicas are fun and handle better than most people will admit but with the Goodyear billboard tires they tramline a lot as well. Most don't have A/C so leaving any top off is usually prefferable to cooking inside the small cockpit. The exhaust sound is tough to beat at full song though.

[tocobill]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Cobra replicas are fun and handle better than most people will admit but with the Goodyear billboard tires they tramline a lot as well. Most don't have A/C so leaving any top off is usually prefferable to cooking inside the small cockpit. The exhaust sound is tough to beat at full song though.

True. Big block tend to put alot more heat out then the SB counterparts. I have a 351 stroked to 427ci mated with a t56 mag 6 speed. ~ 580-600HP is a conservative number. The SB is IMHO the best option for a cobra replica. The big block are more maintenance, more expensive, and tend to run hotter and overheat in traffic more depending on where you live. I live in MD and its a good summer car but an awesome early spring and fall car. I dont take it out if its hotter then 90 Deg unless Im jonesing for a drive and will deal with being slightly uncomfortable if I get stuck in traffic. Its not more uncomfortable then my old 911 in the summer without AC. The billboards look awesome but when it comes to handling they do tramline and are super sticky so they pepper the sides of the car with crap. I run 17in knock offs and they are great vs the 15in knock offs.








PS ... its not hard if you do a cobra replica right and don't cut corners to get 70K into a car. But if you get cheap it stand out like a sore thumb. Food for thought.

[flipper35]

When I get mine out the billboards throw so much gravel is sounds like it is raining, but they are sticky and predictable. I thought about using Line-X for spats on the rear fender.

With the Cobra I have had far more women ask to go for a ride than men which I have always found strange since it is a raw, brutal car whose exhaust come out by your head and makes their hair smell like exhaust and takes 20 minutes to untangle if they don't pull it back in a pony tail.

The Viper is more civilized than the Cobra replica and safer as a track car but Iwould think (not having driven a Viper hard) there is more feedback in the Cobra. But there are more Cobras on the road than Vipers.

By the way, mine is a sb and 48/52% f/r weight bias. Turn in is sharp.

[tocobill]

Originally Posted by flipper35

With the Cobra I have had far more women ask to go for a ride than men which I have always found strange since it is a raw, brutal car whose exhaust come out by your head and makes their hair smell like exhaust and takes 20 minutes to untangle if they don't pull it back in a pony tail.

The Viper is more civilized than the Cobra replica and safer as a track car but Iwould think (not having driven a Viper hard) there is more feedback in the Cobra. But there are more Cobras on the road than Vipers.

Funny and true. Guys tend to drool and gawk but the women are the ones who come up and ask for ride. MY Fiance hates driving in it because of the hair issues .

I wouldnt say there are more cobra then vipers. I guess it really depends on where you live. I see more Vipers at C&C;s in MD then I see cobras.

I forgot to mention that about SB vs BB. The weight distro is alot better and almost 50/50 depending on a few small factors. Also Billboards are good but dont tend to last as long as other tires plus they are not DOT. If you wreck some guys dont get covered because of that. They look bad ass thought and period correct.

Again ... nothing about the cobra is practical. So why sweat the small things .

What are you running for a SB engine and trans on whats chassis? Got any pics?

[flipper35]

I don't have any pics with me here, but it is a slightly bored to 362cid sitting with the belts behind the front spindles with an a833 transmission on a Shell Valley chassis. Chassis is OK but the fiberglas mold isn't as accurate. I need to fix a fender flare (it rubs with the taller billboards) and repaint.

My wife doesn't mind driving it other than if our youngest finds out she can drive it there will be no end of requests to go for a ride.

Too hot to drive it today with the heat index at 105*. The car will be fine but having your feet next to the headers isn't fun on a day like this.

[Racerbvd]

Here is a local GTS for sale..
2001 Dodge Viper GTS with Competition Pkg

[intakexhaust]

Funny story from a bud a few years back:
Showed up to a Viper track day at Willow. So he's out there with a mild built 944 turbo and is just cleaning up on these guys (reality tells me this like a Ferrari track day... ya know what I mean... wink, wink). So anyhow later in the pits, a few were whining and razzin' him for pouncing on them with "one of those V8 Porsche's". Nuff said.