house electrical expert: how do I get 220v in my garage?

[rnln]

I have 2 sources of 110v, each is having separate fuse with 20amp ( I assume. I see "20" on the fuse switch). Wire size is either 12g or 14g. One is for lights, and one is for everything else.
If I get a 4 poles shop lift, I need an outlet of 220v. Can I just get one of the 220v outlet and connect these 2 110v (+), with 1 of the 2 (-) to it to have 220v?
This is a line I see in the lift manual (For a 220V / 50Hz, single phase, 2.2Kw motor, the rated current will be 15A.)
Thanks

[lane912]

you can do as you said, but your results could vary-

correctly done- you would get a 220v, 20A breaker made by the same manufacturer as your panel- ( listed and labeled code requirements of a manufactured assembly) and install it into a empty slot in your panel. next is the conductors- NM or MC of #12 or #10 depending on the distance and the startup draw from the motor (could be very high at start up when the motor is not rotating at operating speed for a moment of a second) this is just a estimate as i have not done the calcs-

220v = two 110v legs of different phases, a neutral and a ground
208v = two 110v legs of different phases and a ground
277v = half of 480v....

[dad911]

Originally Posted by rnln

...... Can I just get one of the 220v outlet and connect these 2 110v (+), with 1 of the 2 (-) to it to have 220v?.......

NO!

It would be best to run a new wire. But if one of the 110 lines is a dedicated circuit, you may be able to use that line for 220 by changing the breaker & receptacle.

[lane912]

get this book - McGraw-Hill's National Electrical Code 2011 Handbook [Book]

[Zeke]

Wow, there is so much you don't understand about wiring. Please hire an electrician. I don't say that to be flippant.

[romad]

[rnln]

So, you are saying that I have to get a dedicated breaker and line for the 220v. I can not use the 2 110v lines with other devices?
Thanks.

Originally Posted by dad911

NO!

It would be best to run a new wire. But if one of the 110 lines is a dedicated circuit, you may be able to use that line for 220 by changing the breaker & receptacle.

[Zeke]

Well, you can post your alarming pics, but the reality of the situation is the possible difference in wire gauge, the equipment ground plus neutral, and the fact that the voltage may be low due to length of run and thereby burn up the lift motor.

So, I don't try to be an alarmist, but rather pragmatical.

Originally Posted by rnln

So, you are saying that I have to get a dedicated breaker and line for the 220v. I can not use the 2 110v lines with other devices?
Thanks.

What I'm saying is that you don't know if these circuits are on opposite phases. They should be, but they don't have to be to work as they are presently. And you most likely do not have a separate ground all the way back to the panel feeding these circuits, but you might. The 230v circuit you propose made up from 2 115v circuits will be a 20A max and that is dependent on the existing wires being both 12ga.

When you said 12, maybe 14, you scared me. You just don't have enough education at this point to do this unassisted. Just MHO.

Furthermore, we don't have 50Hz in this country. See what I mean?

[rnln]

Zeke, I understand what you are saying on your second post now. So, the best is to have everything (include separate ground, wire gauge, opposite phases), but if I can't have everything, my plan will work but not completely safe. Am I correct?
The reason for not knowing the wire size is because I have not looked/compare the size. I want to know if this is possible before I dig deep into it.

Romad, what I was thinking is the same as post #5 on the link below. Right, wrong, why?
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electrical-engineering/circuit-diagram-make-220v-power-point-using-two-110v-lines-368061.html

Thanks.

[carambola]

don't be lazy, run a new line out there.

[rnln]

Chris, it's not about lazy but it's about lines and pipes everywhere. My place is already at the point of piping everywhere now. Well, if it's not possible, yes I have to do what I have to do. If it is, I am trying to elliminate works and mess if possible.

[Zeke]

And, by code, it all has to be in a common conduit to be a unified circuit. If you have 2 conduits running out there now, no dice. Unless you have a big enough conduit to pull new wires.

How many feet are we talking about? I don't have 230v to my garage but when I want to weld, I run a beefy ext cord out there. No difference than hard wired if the distance and gauge is correct for the draw. If you are running cars up and down the lift daily, that's one thing.

[imcarthur]

Run a dedicated 220V line. Motors operate somewhat differently in that they have an amperage surge on start-up. That's why lights will dim if they are on the same circuit as a fridge etc.

If you don't know what you are doing, hire an electrician.

Ian

[carambola]

in theory it is possible, but i wouldn't do.

are we talking about a detached garage?

where is your main panel located?

with just a little bit of blood sweat tears and some cursing, you can do it right and no one will have to worry about burning to death.

[rick-l]

For a split phase system there are two hot conductors 180 degrees out of phase with each other. If you happen upon these two in your garage you could get 220 but doing it this way is a bad idea.

• You won't get 220 out of just any two outlets the two wires have to be different phase which is established at the transformer out on the phone pole.
• You have to switch the two phases together at the breaker. You don't want one side to open and you think it is safe when there is still 110 to ground present.
• You would like the wire where current returns to the source in fairly close proximity to the wire it comes to the load in.
• You probably don't want this big motor load on the same circuit with too much else.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by rnln

So, you are saying that I have to get a dedicated breaker and line for the 220v. I can not use the 2 110v lines with other devices?
Thanks.

You cannot mix 220 & 110 devices on the same circuits/wires. Well, you can, if you're lucky and they are different phases, but it would be an incredible stupid thing to do, and will no pass any code or inspection that I know. And the circuit will not be protected properly by the breakers.... with your plan you could have 1/2 of the 220 phase live if one breaker is off.

By the way, My 4 post lift is 110, my 2 post lift is 220, but you should be able to order it either way, and sometimes the motors can be re-wired 110/220.

[carambola]

so back to your title question: how do I get 220v in my garage?

a little exchange of info is needed and i could probably help you find a relatively painless path to follow.

[rnln]

Alright, enough problems to put this plan aside. Anyway, my garage is on one side of the house, and fuse panel is on another side. If I run wires to above the roof, it would be around 50 or 70 feet, without measuring.

Now, the second plan. I already have 220v in the back of the house. It was the old setup for washer/dryer; which I never use. To take this into the garage, it would be around the same distant through the roof, 50-60 feet. Should I add wires/pipes to run it from there into the garage?

[carambola]

so you are in california, i have assume your house is stick built on a slab. is there an attic or is every ceiling cathedral?
i would stay away from fishing down to the old dryer outlet.
if you are already going to be doing some work have you considered just putting a sub-panel on the other side of the house in the garage?

[rnln]

sub panel: taking wires from orignal panel to another side of the house and create another panel? Does that mean a lot more work?