Please don't shoot the messenger, guys (not that the PPOT brain trust would ever do that:rolleyes:).

Dems da rules that virtually every club here in Washington enforces. Take it or leave it. I didn't make them, I don't enforce them, and I'm pretty damn ambivalent about them. All I did was communicate them.

The way I see it, just like if you crash on the highway... it happened in public, it will probably make the net... Big frigging whoop.... As Todd said, just some bent sheet metal....

Many DE groups ask these types of pix not to be posted, but not for the reasons posted, but because they don't want to scare any new drivers off.. And yes, I have been asked not to post crash pix from more than one group (but then again, I have been doing em a long time. No group wants to get a reputation of having unsafe events, and yes, these track crashes do affect all of the track guys..

Yea, I dont get it. If no one is planning on a bogus insurance claim and no one got hurt, whats the big deal. I took pics of the side of a car at the last DE that had some damage. And I did it in full daylight, without camo or telephoto lens. I guess I should have been more careful. I havnt posted them, but if I did- banned?? WTF. If that is true in whatever region, it better be posted everywhere and announced at every driver meeting.

Im open to any real reasons why that is a valid "punishment".

First rule of "fight club"..............

So you're saying that getting new drivers (ie more $$$) is so important that they censor the members? Or they want to under-represent the inherent risks in DEs?

Sorry, I don't get it. None of these reasons seem particularly compelling or honest.

I don't organize or help run DE's at any level, for most of the same reasons I would never run or moderate a forum like this one. It seems many of those who participate are just too smart, just too good looking, just too special, for any of the common rules of decency to apply to them. They are all special cases who get special exceptions, who must have the finer points of propriety, restraint, and good manners continually explained to them. They neither "get it" nor see how any of that applies to them. They feel they are above all of that.

It is for such people that gentlemen - normally decent, understanding, moderate, quiet types need to come out with such absolutes. Gentlemen, not quite so full of themselves, don't need to hear these things. It remains axiomatic in most endeavors that many of "the rules" are made for those who don't "get it", who will never understand. Their egos preclude that. They inhabit forums like this and, unfortunately, they attend DE's. It's very clearly a case where the "gentleman's rules" that used to be implicit in such endeavors no longer are, so they must be spelled out - with attendant penalties - for those participants who neither "get it", nor are "gentlemen" about it. They cannot understand the "why" (and think it shouldn't apply to them, since they are so special), so those that do understand are forced into the rather un-gentlemanly position of having to make and enforce "official" rules that were once implicitly understood by one and all. Such is the price in a society where everyone is "special"...

Pretty much..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MDztC3YGuoo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Banned for pictures? thats ridiculous. I assure you Peachstate PCA does not have that rule..

um, ok.

Evidently you're not as ambivalent as you thought :D

all this crap about not showing pics and video makes no sense to me. If you can't afford a shunt or don't want to see pics of your car if you FU, stay the **** at home, leave the car in the garage or better still sell it to someone else.

It's amusing to watch people get so bent out of shape by something that is none of their business in any conceivable way. Spitting expletives at their keyboards, what fun! And people wonder why there aren't more members of Pelican.

In my interactions with other Porsche owners in the Pacific NW, there is one theme that stands out more than any other.... very few will acknowledge that they've ever heard of Pelican, even though this is one of the biggest Porsche websites on the planet. Their silence speaks volumes. They prefer real life with real friends who have real codes of honor and community standards of behavior.

People vote with their wallets...

_

Aww dang. This is the part of every thread debate where it gets all quotation-and-retort, feelings get hurt and egos crushed. The only thing missing now is the final blow to a thread, which is putting someone down because they spell a word wrong.

Anyway, all this talk of honor and getting it- we are not talking about photographing dead bodies are we? I guess Im dishonorable and dont get it.

Genrex,
What were you doing up at 0442? Or are you not at home?

Imo......if you can't accept the risk of writing off your car at the track be it a de or any type of event on track then it shouldn't be on the track...
If it is a concern you can get track insurance as started previously.......
It's again about personal liability, and covering your own ass in the event of something like this.....
Wo is me If I crash my car on track and someone posts pictures.....that's life....plan ahead......

Since I was the one that indicated that IMHO it is not cool to post pics of banged cars, I’ll add a couple of notes of why personally think it’s not cool.

The owner already had the incident of which he probably beating himself up for what happened, for risking his car, for getting in deep doo-doo with the marital unit, for showing that he is not the big shot he thinks he was, could be anything. I was not thinking nor suggesting committing insurance fraud (especially since my practice has a lot to do with fighting insurance crime) even though that might be an issue to some. To each his own when it comes to personal ethics just don't try to get it past my team.

I would imagine that some DE organizations don’t want them out there either as it could affect their standing (with drivers, clubs, their insurers, track owners, etc).

There are also issues of responsibility that are not often talked about on DE venues. What happens if an incident happens when the instructor is driving? What happens when an instructor gets hurt whilst on the passenger seat….?
Many things to consider and one of the reasons I don’t instruct anymore ( a friend got badly hurt whilst on the passenger seat).

It is a fact that, when you play with fire you stand to get burned but I’m for letting the victim deal with his wounds. And paraphrasing what was mentioned before, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

One of the things I like the least about racing spectators in general is that a lot of them do not care about the racing as much as they look for spectacular accidents. IMHO, that is what demolition derbies (and programs like the Kardashians ;) ), are for not Grand Am, ALMS, F1, NASCAR, …..

I for one don’t come to Pelican to see pics of banged up cars except if they are shown as an inspiration of a great project and related resurrection of a car. And we have seen plenty of them. I remember when Jack busted up his original black car only to come back with a vengeance which has inspired many to improve their toys.

There is at least one website to look at trashed cars out there (crashed exotics or something similar to that).

Personally, I have had incidents racing and pics have been posted some by me (edit: so far, none my fault!). It’s a part of my game but in the end, it is my choice.

Mossguy -- yeah, my girlfriend hates it when I wake up in the middle of the night and get on the computer "for a minute" and then go back to bed. I figure she's sleeping through it, but somehow she always knows, and she always gives me an earful about it. Anyway, why were you *not* on Pelican at 0442 in the morning? Are you not home? :)

_

Heh, he, you did. "Im" and "dont."

Or maybe that key dont work. ;)

As far as I can tell, accidents happen at DEs due to 3 main reasons:

1. ego
2. mechanicals
3. ego

And sometimes ego is involved. So basically you're saying that posting pics of a car that stuffed hurts the ego of the guy who did it? He should be beating himself up and maybe some publicity might make him think twice before he gets in over his head the next time


All the more reason to be up front about these issues and talk about them. Frankly some of the people at DEs shouldn't be there, and people should be reminded about the possible consequences. Some organizations are really good at dealing with this, others not so much.

For the most part I had good experiences instructing but there were the occasional students that gave me pause. Mostly because they flat out didn't listen. They were either stupid or had ego issues. Or both :D

Actually, I was at home, but it was not one of my 3 nights/week insomnia nights. I usually wake up sometime between 0100 and 0300 and "work" at the computer until I get sleepy enough to go back to bed, usually 1 - 1 1/2 hours.