There are no loyalties in business any longer

KevinP73 · 08-24-2012, 09:11 AM

I recall back in the late '70s when I first started working for Barris there was an upholsterer who stiffed George on a job he did poorly. When this upholsterer went looking for work from others in the custom car business( Dick Dean, Dean Jefferies,Daryll Starbird, Korky) they all took him to task in his dealings with George and wouldn't give him any new work. Eventually he folded and made good with George. Thats just the way things worked back then.
It sure doesn't work that way any longer. It's all about greed, back stabbing, and ass kissing. I've always felt that as a business person I've been fair, honest and loyal. Seems as though those are worthless traits now days.
(End Rant)

flipper35 · flipper35's Garage

I agree. Most of the time it seems people (and businesses) don't care who gets screwed as long as it isn't them. Even better if they make a few extra bucks off of those getting screwed.

There are a few businesses that lost my business not because they screwed up, but because of how they handled it after the screw up. People make mistakes and there isn't a way around that but no one seems to want to own up to any mistakes any more.

Zeke · 08-24-2012, 09:26 AM

Just about everywhere you look. But, I think there are networks that still honor fairness to all including competitors. SoCal has just grown so big that there are new people in any given industry on every corner. That mass has allowed skunks to survive.

I'll bet it doesn't work that way in smaller towns on the East Coast.

BTW, I don't completely understand, "...who stiffed George on a job he did poorly." Did the upholsterer do bad work after being paid up front? Or what?

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

I do my best to deal locally with people I know. We can usually work problems out.

KevinP73 · 08-24-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

Just about everywhere you look. But, I think there are networks that still honor fairness to all including competitors. SoCal has just grown so big that there are new people in any given industry on every corner. That mass has allowed skunks to survive.

I'll bet it doesn't work that way in smaller towns on the East Coast.

BTW, I don't completely understand, "...who stiffed George on a job he did poorly." Did the upholsterer do bad work after being paid up front? Or what?

It was back in the days of tuck and roll ( not talking Snipers "Monkey roll" technique) the pleats on the seat bottom didn't line up with the pleats on the seat back.

look 171 · 08-24-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinP73

I recall back in the late '70s when I first started working for Barris there was an upholsterer who stiffed George on a job he did poorly. When this upholsterer went looking for work from others in the custom car business( Dick Dean, Dean Jefferies,Daryll Starbird, Korky) they all took him to task in his dealings with George and wouldn't give him any new work. Eventually he folded and made good with George. Thats just the way things worked back then.
It sure doesn't work that way any longer. It's all about greed, back stabbing, and ass kissing. I've always felt that as a business person I've been fair, honest and loyal. Seems as though those are worthless traits now days.
(End Rant)

You do the best you can to hold on to those good traits you have there. I do my best for all my men or people that are good and have done work for me. I buy from the same vendors each and every time.

tevake · 08-24-2012, 10:01 AM

Kevin, take a moment and think back on how many good customers have come your way by word of mouth. Its a relatively small world in the realm of car enthusiasts and your good work will bring you more jobs and happy customers.
Granted in So Cal there is enough business to carry the bad ones for a while but probably not for that long. Plus who would want to be in their shoes in dealing with disappointed/ irate customers.
My take is keep doing your best and good will come back to you.

Cheers Richard

cashflyer · 08-24-2012, 10:05 AM

I'm restoring an airplane for the general contractor who is building an addition onto my shop. I told him up front, "My work will be just as good as yours. If you cut corners, so will I."

Jim Sims · 08-24-2012, 10:05 AM

This is an old trend: Carnegie Steel to Bain Capital. The change is the the little guys are trying to emulate the big boys. This now appears to represent our society's values. Money is worshiped without regard to its origin.

BE911SC · 08-24-2012, 10:14 AM

Go back and watch 1987's "Wall Street" to see how Oliver Stone glorified this type of behavior. Bud Fox is not the hero, Gordon Gekko is. Stone maintains to this day that he is surprised at how many Wall Streeters have thanked him over the years for energizing them into wanting to be just like Gekko.

ben parrish · 08-24-2012, 10:26 AM

I sell food for a living to restaurants...seriously one of the most competitive industries there is. Customers will sell you out for ten cents a case price difference.
That said, I've built a very loyal customer base. My best customers know that many times I am not the cheapest purveyor but I will always treat them fairly and ALWAYS help them out in a bind.
The best "tactic" I use is to make sure they know there are cheaper products available but my job is to help them serve the highest quality products and still make money doing it. I frequently tell them you cant save your way to prosperity...you have to provide a quality product and charge a fair price for both the consumer and the operator.

We have become obsessed with finding the best "deal" as a society; unfortunately, the best deal is not always the best value.....many simply don't get this.
Loyalaty is out there but is is harder to earn these days.

romad · romad's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflyer

I'm restoring an airplane for the general contractor who is building an addition onto my shop. I told him up front, "My work will be just as good as yours. If you cut corners, so will I."

problem with this is worst case: he might get sued for his work ......you would go to jail

Zeke · 08-24-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinP73

It was back in the days of tuck and roll ( not talking Snipers "Monkey roll" technique) the pleats on the seat bottom didn't line up with the pleats on the seat back.

I must be really dense today. I still don't get how the upholsterer "stiffed" GB unless GB paid him in advance. If the pleats didn't line up, why would GB accept the work?

I know this trivia has nothing to do with the main point. Again, I call a lot of this the "Costco Mentality" which I've defined here before as the training of the buying public to expect to be able to buy for less.

Ben says, "...you cant save your way to prosperity." Sol Price, the founder of Price Club (now Costco) always bought lower than normal wholesale through a variety of tactics, built a huge company, sold it and wrote a book about it.

So, there's also a "Costco Mentality" for the wholesale buying industry as well. I suppose this is nothing new given Henry Ford.

KevinP73 · 08-24-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

I must be really dense today. I still don't get how the upholsterer "stiffed" GB unless GB paid him in advance. If the pleats didn't line up, why would GB accept the work?

John worked for a shop that did upholstery work for George. He came to George one day and said the shop he worked for was going to close and he had decided to work for himself and would appreciate if George would give him some work. At the time he was working out of his house and doing great work. Thru George John was introduced to some of the others in the industry and started getting more work. John eventually moved into a commercial building and hired a couple guys to help him.
We were restoring an older custom hot rod and George sent the car over in primer to have the interior redone. The car came back so we could finish the paint and other work on the car. When we were ready for the the interior to go in it John brought everything back and said "Here you go just screw everything in place and you're good to go". John got paid and everything was fine 'till we installed the seat.
George reached out to John but John kept putting it off saying he was too busy to deal with it and he'd do it later. "Later" took too long. It was a close knit group back then and everyone became aware of the problem between John and George. Thats when the others starting withholding work. As I said John eventually took care of the problem. But I can't say he did a lot of work for George after that.
It was the others putting the pressure on John to make good with George that brought the matter to an end. I don't John would have ever taken care of business other wise.

speeder · speeder's Garage

I find that it's still a pretty small world when it comes to the auto repair industries.

"Yelp" is also an extremely powerful force.

Zeke · 08-24-2012, 11:50 AM

Well, sometimes it takes a lengthy explanation to straighten out idiots like me.

But, Barris really didn't gt stiffed, he got the run around and bad service. There have been several articles on the subject in the L.A Times , the most recent being today:
Time Warner should rethink its approach to customer service - latimes.com

I wonder if poor interpersonal relationship in business has trickled down as a result, or if the trend is upward? I'm serious. I look at younger people today and see a lack of just about everything, but loyalty, ethics, morality and commitment all occupy spots high on the list.

This is a chicken-and-egg deal but it's real whichever way it has come about.

But, Kevin, your story goes back to the 70's, yet the title is "There are no loyalties in business any longer" When did it start for you?

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder

"Yelp" is also an extremely powerful force.

Yelp Aims to Deal With Problem of Fake Reviews - the Haggler - NYTimes.com

Yelp will help you remove bad reviews…for a price. - The Next Web

cashflyer · 08-24-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romad

problem with this is worst case: he might get sued for his work ......you would go to jail

You are correct that if I did anything to affect airworthiness or safety, there could be serious legal repercussions - to include jail time. However I put safety above all else in my work and would never compromise that ethic for any reason. Mostly, statements of this sort are meant to make a person think.

If I were to ever cut corners on a plane, it would be in areas that do not affect safety. Maybe a cheaper grade of upholstery, or a little less spit-and-polish.

One of my A&P associates just told me about an hour ago, with regard to something I am working on, "Painting that is not part of your bid. Why are you doing it?"

My answer was simple, "Because my name goes on it."

Buckterrier · 08-24-2012, 02:48 PM

Loyalty? PSSST. I've got 26 years with the same company I'm 55 with 5 weeks vacation. I know my days are numbered. Hell the company I work for, (Fortune 500), doesn't even realize we sell paint anymore. Of course I'm being facetious, to a point. In today's world it is all about the AMB, the All Mighty Bean. Hail to the bean!!!!!!!! The more I can count the better.

A sad state of affairs indeed.

herr_oberst · 08-24-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashflyer

My answer was simple, "Because my name goes on it."

This is exactly what we, as a collective, have forgotten, IMHO.

Or, if that seems too broad of a statement, then I'll just say, I have got to try and remember to keep that at the forefront, no matter how frustrated I get with the process.

Thanks, cashman!