My 915 equipped, '82 SC ROW w/SSI's & Dansk 2 in, 2 out, makes probably 220 hp. The 915 was rebuilt by the previous owner's mech at 68k miles. The odo just turned 200k and, while 1 to 2 shifts now require a bit of "finesse", the trans works just fine and I drive the car HARD, NEVER shifting below 3k and running up to redline once at least every 2nd or 3rd time I drive it.

An SC has a cable operated clutch and has a totally different feel than a G50 Carrera, which is hydraulically operated and spongy feeling. There is just no question that the SC is visceral and raw, all aspects of its character connecting the driver much more directly to the machine than a G50 Carrera, which has more the feel of a Grand Tourer than a pure sports car.

915's are criticized by less than adept drivers as "vague" because the shift lever gives no feedback as to where it is relative to the gear you want to move it into. That's very true and one must "learn" the transmission, perhaps analogous to developing muscle memory learning the frets on a guitar, to learn where the gears are - and they are always in EXACTLY the same place.

915's don't use conventional synchro rings and if the trans is bang shifted its life will be very short. SC's are not meant for drag racing and don't suffer ham fisted drivers lightly. One must develop the feel, when up against the synchros, for when to move the lever.

My SC is my first and only Porsche. I was shopping for an SC or Carrera until I drove both and got seduced by the raw, visceral character of the SC. However, I wanted a no nonsense, basic sports car, not a comfy grand tourer, so am quite happy with the Bilstein Sports, bigger torsion bar ride and the fact that I can set off car alarms at will. Others prefer a civilized Carrera.

BTW, and I've had to prove this to several other 915 drivers, the 915 can be shifted, absolutely seamlessly and super smoothly, without one snick, up and down, through all the gears, all day long, without even using the clutch.

I mentioned it in another thread...pulling into my atty's parking lot a few weeks ago, I spotted a beautiful, showroom condition '07 Cayman S. Upon finishing our business, I inquired if it was his. Yep...recently purchased with 7500 (HUNDRED) miles for 30K. I wouldn't let go of my Carrera, but I might be tempted some day. I'm not sure they'll make it down to the teens though (anytime soon), but I'd be glad to be proven wrong...they're already interesting imo and I'd bet they level off. A LOT of car for the $ imo :)

Well, the timing may be the issue, but the boxsters are in the low teens now for 5 years. I don't see why a 10 year old Coxster wouldn't be there.

G

Because, for the $30k budget here, you can't buy a 930 worth buying.

JR

of course they'll all eventually be low teen (or lower) cars.

no one could think that the cayman is going to hit $20K and stop depreciating, could they?

A lot of great information and advice- I appreciate it. As suggested, I'll go out and drive some cars, hook up with PCA and local repair shops. I think my comfort level budget wise will put me into a SC or mid-year Carrera. The 915/G50 issue seems secondary, pending driving them. Even though there's good value in a 964 (as well as early 996s, I really like the look of the earlier ones with the Fuchs wheels.

Here's something I saw on eBay, perhaps heading for a price too high, but maybe not. Red wouldn't be my first choice, and I think I'd rather not have a whale tail. I just want something modest and tasteful.

Porsche : 911 28k miles in Porsche | eBay Motors

Then SC or Carrera it is. Excellent choices! That ebay item at 30k is a lot. Take your time and look at ( and drive ) many,many examples. Keep in mind, your search field means it would need to be a very special car to bring that kind of coin. Nearly every single car in that range is going to depreciate, too. Sadly, it's a used car and will decrease in value a bit more. Even though it's a Porsche.

The nice thing on an air cooled 911 is that it will never tank in price. You may spend money keeping it up but there is nothing left under $15k these days that's even half way decent. Buying a classic / icon never is a bad idea IMHO. I doubt the Coxster will ever get there.

G

This is what I'd be after. Pic posted by mthomas58 in the dog thread...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1345727332.jpg

That car looks nice but I'm really not into the blingy wheel treatment. I think that the stock anodysed finish was exquisite and making them shiny really cheapens the car. YMMV. :cool:

Here is what one of my rear 8s looked like after refinishing on my SC:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346224922.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346224947.jpg

I will admit that I am opinionated as all get-up when it comes to these cars. When they're right, they make my knees buckle. Most I see are all wrong. :cool:

Here was the whole car:
 

I miss this one. :(
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346225209.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346225253.jpg

Boxsters are a dime-a-dozen, and I for one don't give 'em a second look (despite how they might be performance wise). The Cayman, on the other hand, is the only new Porsche since the 993 that does "IT" for me, and I rarely see 'em. I think the secondary market that think like I do will keep the price above 20 for a while. Down to the teens eventually...sure (particularly if not in good condition), but I don't see that happening anytime soon for well kept examples. Time will tell...

My big problem with early cars is not the prices, (although they suck), it's the fact that there are never any good ones for sale anymore. At least not in any public venues. Early cars have been steadily sucked out of the country for 10 years now and what's left is schit. All I see on eBay is 2nd and 3rd rate restored cars for crack-smoking prices. Just shiny junk, the scraps of what's left of the hobby. Original paint, unmolested low-mileage cars are non-existent in the marketplace and they used to be very common. A large percentage of Porsche owners historically have kept their cars garage queens.

My interest has shifted to newer 911s because they are better cars and under-valued rather than over-valued in the market place. :cool:

It's funny but even though I know that Caymans are awesome cars, I can't get past their looks. They look like garbage to me and 911s still look beautiful. That matters to me in a car, especially a non-essential fun car. :cool:

I'm not so proud that I won't pick up a piece of garbage if I see it laying around :); I've seen less than a handful around here...maybe that's part of the appeal for me...I like 'em. I like 'em a LOT, but the 911 ain't going anywhere...just "move over and share some space" :)

Now how can you be so emotional about a platypus car? ;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346242562.jpg

Came across one on the Monterey craigslist. Not for me, as I'm thinking more low-key. I suspect if this M491 was a good car, the seller would have put more effort into that ad.

Denis' SC is exactly the look I'd be after, even the color is perhaps my favorite.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346246081.jpg

Black 85 Porsche 911 with the M491 package (Turbo Look)

If otherwise in great condition that's a decent price for a factory turbo-look car. They sell for a pretty big premium.

That's the quality of car I'd be looking at. Miles better than the black C2 posted earlier, which wouldn't get a second glance from me.

I'd suggest searching on cars.com, when you get serious. Autotrader is full of old ads for cars that are no longer for sale and auctions like eBay often don't allow enough time to check out a car prior to buying it.

JR

Those are some of the worst photos I've seen in a while. That is actually a Guards Red car but I had to read the color tag to be sure. That color looks a lot lighter/better in person. :cool:

Apparently you don't live in CA. I see a Cayman or three every day. What's interesting is that I start seeing them in lower middle class neighborhoods, parked on the side of the road together with other fast depreciating German iron. I don't see an indication that these are treated as collectors items or special cars by their second / third owners.

G

That 1993 coupe in the link does not look like a bad example of the model. Each series has their ups and downs, it's important to buy the best example you can find/afford.

Au contraire, Pierre... c'est horrible

Bad paint, that has clearly not been cared for. It's seen a lot of daily driver use.

An owner that couldn't be bothered to properly wash and wax his car before shooting photos of it.

Missing parts.

Evidence of not-quite-steller maintenance.

Recent ownership and use, by a kid.

And, it's black...

Pass.

JR

Steve,

I have NOT read the responses and I am sure there are some very good ones.

Make sure whether you desire a G50 or a 915 transmission first and foremost! Drive both of them, they are different beasts. I prefer the 915 in my '83, Wife prefers the G50 in her 993. We both HATE having a six speed as the sixth gear never gets used and the fifth gear only once or twice in several years. I do not remember using fifth in my '83 more than once.

Look more for condition and care of the vehicle rather than a garage queen with low miles. My '83 required ALOT of work to straighten out after being a garage queen. Now she has been one again for the past five years so i might have to start over again. The cars do better with regular driving and proper maintenance. Sank thousands into the in-laws Model 400A after it sat for years in a museum (had to redo every line, gasket, anything rubber, and regrease EVERYTHING) but it was still an almost completely original 400A including paint but with new material over the horsehair.

Break the years up. 78-79 SC, 80-83 SC, 84-86, 87-89, 89-94 (964), 95 (993), 96-99? (993)

Find the best example. For my opinion: 80-83SC, 87-89, 89-94, and 95 would be my targets. each have their pluses and minuses. Do not be scared of high mileage on a well maintained vehicle.

If you are keeping a garage queen then buy one but be prepared to pay premium money for them.

Heck, didn't even charge $.02.

Hate to say it but other than some interior parts that 1993 makes our '95 993 look pristine for more money than we value our car. Heck, our 1983 looks better and my Wife wants to repaint the SC.

It really comes down to maintenance and what your use will be for the vehicle. Nothing more in my mind.

I know of a very well sorted '91 C2 coupe for sale under $20K. It has a LOT of miles, but will PPI very well.

In the real world, the difference between an '84-86 and an '87-89 Carrera is minimal. There's a premium being asked for G50 cars at the moment that is not entirely justified, IMO.

A long hood at $30K could be a very good car, if you are into minimal creature comforts and maximum "tossability."

As has been said repeatedly: drive a range of cars. Decide for yourself.

That is one of the most bizarre driving-related things I've ever read.

Must be too many of these in his way. ;)

http://transportationnation.org/wp-c...ghway-road.jpg

I'm northeast of LA (Lower Alabama)...see occasional 911s of all vintages, LOTs of Boxsters, and you see more Caymans in one day than I have ever :).

I'd bet my Carrera has only seen 5th maybe a dozen times in ten years, and those Interstate trips are rare for me in that car. Heck, grabbing 4th means I'm seriously above the posted speed limit and that's not something I do on a regular basis. Most times out, I never get beyond 3rd...how's that for bizarre :)?

ps: At 60-65 mph what gear are you in?

4th or 5th gear. If you're driving along on the freeway at a steady 65 mph in 3rd, or even 4th, you're being an automotive moron. What do you think the other gears are for? :confused:

I used 5th gear in my SC every time I got on the freeway. WTF would you waste fuel rolling along at a steady 65-80 mph, (80 is a typical L.A. freeway speed when not congested), in 4th gear? Does it make you feel like you're being "racy" to wind the piss out of your engine on the freeway?

These cars need to come with a driving manual and a quiz before you take the controls.

I think this thread has officially jumped the shark.

This was my work car for a couple of years while I was traveling in the western US. Probably not alot of "blue collar" 911's out there, but this one saw about 25,000 miles in Oregon, California, Arizona, Nevada, Washington, and Idaho. This was a cheap car so it's actually paid for itself and then paid for upgrades through reimbursed mileage while on work travel. PLENTY of time in 5th gear - LOL!

Dead nuts reliable car. I did have a flaky voltage regulator one time, but made it home OK. Saw PLENTY of 5th gear - LOL!

Drive different vintages, pick what you want and then buy the nicest one you can find. I'm flat out prejudiced as I'll point you out to an SC or an 84-89 Carrera every time so DONT LISTEN TO ME! :D

angela

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346272590.jpg

How so?

Absolutely, fifth. The great thing is that there's this lever right next to the seat that allows me to change back into any other gear in a fraction of a second if I want. As a mayor of fact, I think I've seen fifth when going even slower.

Because of the silly gear use posts.

5th.

When a long time enthusiast is lectured about what gear to drive in, IMHO it is time to shut down the thread.

I'll get most of the way there in 2nd, shift to 3rd just before, then put it into 4th to cruise. I think 60 is a little too slow for 5th for me.

Go back and REREAD my post. Of course I'd be in 5th if I were on an Interstate (or any highway) and in the scenario you describe...but I VERY rarely drive on those. It's been at least 5 years since I've been on an Interstate in my 911. Twisty, curvey, hilly, country back roads are another matter entirely. Never at a steady speed for more than a bit and in the appropriate gear for the speed I'm at. I keep the rpms above 3K and run up near redline on every shift (after proper warmup). Maroon you say...I think not :)