That's quite a generalization. I, for one, don't fit and have a later model water pumper. It may have fit in with the description for its first 2 years of life, though. But in 10 years of ownership I have failed to find the signs.

It has never suffered the abuses you describe while in our possession.

Your car is thirteen years old, not late model

And you're not the typical SoCal Porsche owner. Far from it.

And I'd bet in the first two years of life it saw more abuse than it has seen in your care

Eric,

You're missing the point. All other things being equal, I'd pay a premium for a car with low mileage. A low mileage car doesn't have to have any deferred maintenance. It can be just as current as a daily driver. Mine were. Just because a prospective car has low miles doesn't mean it shouldn't be checked out in exactly the same way as any other car.

None of my low mileage cars had any expenses associated with sitting. They were maintained in the same manner as the cars with higher mileage. None of them had any unusual failures.

I've owned several cars where I had more than one of a particular model, at the same time. I'll give you an example of a pair of mine. Car A was a two owner car with 70k miles, bought for $12k. Car B was identical, other than it was 3 model years older and had 143k miles. I paid $4300 for it. It was also a two-owner car, both of whom were club members; it had original paint and all service records from new (a file about an inch thick). The services were largely performed by a dealer. I spent $30K on car B, to bring it up to the same standard as car A. No major motor work, just refreshing all the little things than go bad with age, plus a little work on the paint. In the end, both looked great and were 100% up-to-date mechanically. When I sold them 6 or 7 years later, car A sold for $24k and car B sold for $21k. Car B never drove as nicely as car A. I could tell them apart blindfolded, before I got out of first gear. To me, it was a night and day difference.

JR

Unless it's acid rain, I don't see the big deal. Maybe it gets a lot dirtier? Driving a vehicle on salted roads for any period of time causes irreversible damage. It may be minor if it's a newer car, but it's damage. Same with parking it near the ocean for any period if there is ocean spray in the air.

Every time your car gets wet, water gets into places that take days to dry out again. Over time, these areas can rust, Porsche's galvanizing notwithstanding. A good example of this is the joint between the tub of a 911 and it's front fenders. Or, have a look under the weatherstripping in the front trunk of any 914. I could list dozens of examples.

Plated finishes don't last forever. Have a look at the fasteners on a car that's seen a lot of rain, then go look at one that has been kept dry.

Pull a tailight out of a 911 that's seen a lot of rain and take it apart. Take note of the corrosion inside.

Disassemble a 911 for a restoration and take note of how much time you spend cleaning an 1/8th of an inch of crud off of every part underneath it, before you get to the real work of refurbishing the parts.

Etc., etc.

JR

I currently have, and have owned for years, an 80s car that has well under 10K miles on it.

Obviously, it sits, a lot, often for 6-8 weeks at a time.

It is, however, fully roadworthy and does get fully warmed up, taken out, driven up to redline, braked hard, etc. from time to time. It is also fully maintained.

I've never had any real problem with "seals," etc. Yes, over the years I've had a gasket or 2 start leaking, but those things happen when you drive a car, too. All the body seals, rubber, etc. are all original and are all like new.

I agree, the supposed "problems" with low mile cars is generally overstated on internet forums.

Since everyone gets major wood from a nice 993, here's a Turkish Green '96 with 3,700 miles.

Porsche : 911 Carrera Coupe 2-Door | eBay

What do you think it will fetch? $45,100 right now and it hasn't met reserve...

$50,000?

$55,000?

$59,000?

This post makes the bizarre assumption that a car could be drive on public roads for 52k miles, (from 52 to 104k miles), with absolutely no wear at all. (??).

I don't care how careful you are, if you drive a car it gets more used. I've been driving a 2011 car for the last 1k miles and I've put wear on it. It would be a nicer car if it had sat in a garage for the last month. I don't notice the wear on my older, high-mileage cars but boy do I notice it on a newer car. Didn't you ever have demos in the car biz? They age in the first 2k miles.

"Quote de javadog"

Actually, I think you're responding to Eric's comments about my posts. You're makin' me look bad, man...

JR

Don't know. Don't care. I don't like the 993's, at all. And I really can't stand a car with a gray interior...

JR

Eric - how easy is it to spin a VDO mechanical odometer and what is the best way to do it?

I have a spare one for my '86 Vanagon and want to spin it UP in miles to make it match the busted original one...

can I just move the number wheels with a pick? or do I need to use a square drive bit in a drill for hour after hour??

To me, personally, for an 80s 911 I prefer a "low/mid" mile car.

I bought one with 30K miles on it, which was a great car, but it was too perfect and the miles were too low for me to feel comfortable driving it, putting it in parking lots, etc. I bought it with the intention of driving it, but I just didn't have the heart to do it.

My current is an 88 that I bought with 72K miles on it. Perfect. I paid what others seem to have been paying for 130K mile cars.

To me, that's the current sweet spot for Carreras. You can still find them in well maintained, original condition with 70-85K miles on them. If you look hard enough, and are able to move quick enough, you can get one for a good price still, and will have a lot of the car's best years/miles to enjoy.

Then how about this..... it sold recently:

2007 911 Carrera S Coupe 6 spd

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346364542.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346364555.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346364569.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346364598.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346364623.jpg


I realize it's apples to a different kind of apple, but it sold for about the same as that 52K mile 1985 Carrera on eBay.

All because it had 99K miles. Condition was exceptional. New Pirellis. New windshield. Stacks of receipts, dealer maintained. No paintwork. One owner.

Three weeks ago the same car (but without NAV) did $58,200 with fees. Because it had 13K miles.

A $30,000 premium for fewer miles.

Yep, I'm not afraid of getting mine wet at all, but it's pretty rare. She was a garage queen (46K mi) at the time, and when I tore into her, I found what JR speaks of. Another place is in the rear wheel wells way back adjacent to the rockers...I couldn't believe the packed in dirt/crud/tar etc. that was on both sides...not an issue now, but left alone it would have been.

Sounds a bit like my CE and the exact reason the PO sold it after 6 months. He was a true "car guy" but didn't have the heart to expose it to "the city", so he passed it on. If I may ask, was your CE one you've been talking about in these posts, if so, which one?

Yeah, I was. Damn iPhone won't do the *quote function* right. :cool:

If that's not an APPL killer I don't know what is :)

It's very easy to get a certificate of existing miles before changing out a speedo. Why put the wear on the replacement?

Ditto. This going to turn into the movie, "Stepbrothers" between us. :)

That's not the best looking car. It probably sat on the showroom floor for 3 years before they had to give it away for less than it's going to fetch now. :D

The truth of the matter is that 993s have a following, even if it's not my favorite model, and they will pull strong prices in good color/condition/miles with records, etc. The turbos and wide-body "S" models bring exceptionally strong money, I would not even consider one for my used 911 $$. That high-mileage 997S would definitely get a look for the right price. Mileage is just one parameter of a car's value used but it's an important one. :cool:

Just send it down to North Hollywood speedometer and have them go through it and then set the miles where you want them. If it's a typical VDO gauge that breaks anyways, why not have it rebuilt and updated for $150 and not have to R&R it again? :cool:

uh, cuz I am cheap and don't want to spend $150 + shipping...

I'm glad Denis answered, that's exactly what I was going to say. If you want it done right, that's where you send it.

But it's also easy to do yourself. They come apart and you put them back together will the barrels spun to whatever miles you set them to. Takes minutes.

Rebuilding Your VDO Speedometer

There are many other resources that show the How-To's if you Google them

It's an old Vanagon. Why bother?

JR

thx!

No, my CE had around 90K on it when I sold it. It was a nice "driver level" car.

My 30K Carrera was a factory Turbo Look (M491). It was a perfect condition car, it could have easily passed for a 5,000 mile car. The factory Cosmoline on it was still clean. I put it up for sale and there was huge interest in it and it was gone within days.

I'm sure there's some truth to that, I guess I just don't have the concourse mindset. The 4Runner that I bought new and sold 65,000 miles later still looked like a new car, short of the Pebble Beach crowd most would have been hard pressed to tell that it was used. Because I was religious about washing the underbody after driving it in the snow, even the fasteners underneath looked nearly new. Short of a little light corrosion on exposed fasteners, I'm of the belief that a well kept car can look very nearly as nice as new after 100k or more. A 911 that has been driven and well kept shouldn't ever rust unless it has been exposed to extreme circumstances, like MN winters.

I'm working on one with 90k miles that spent most of it's life in the sunny San Diego area, far enough inland that salt spray off of the ocean wasn't an issue. I'm getting ready to pull the left front fender off, to deal with rust in that joint.

Wanna come over and watch?

JR

A quick look on eBay just now found a few decent looking candidates in the SC and Carrera years.

One sample doesn't constitute fact for all. In a 30+ year old car there are a lot of variables that will ultimately dictate condition. My point is that a properly cared for car in normal circumstances can be kept in nearly new condition for a long time. Most 30 year old cars have some neglect in their past, so finding a properly cared for one can be a challenge. But I'd be happy to come help, I'll even bring some cold beer.:)

You're too late. I already have the fender off. I think you need to take a few of these shiny things apart and see what they really look like underneath. You'd probably be shocked.

And, it isn't that they are not cared for. This car lived in a dry climate. How did it get rusty? Maybe the owner washed it to death... every time it got washed, water got in these cracks and stayed there for a long time.

I'm not making this up. It's reality.

JR

Sigh.....

I think someone needs to start their own thread if they are going to be nothing but negative and confrontational.

I've always been willing to pay a slight premium for a low-mileage car. The last 997S I bought had only 2,500 miles on it and was five years old. The history of the car convinced me that this was just fine - as it turned out to be - and for a small premium I got a car that still smelled new and had factory stickers here and there. What's not to like? Also there is an intangible satisfaction I get from buying and driving a car with say, less than 10,000 miles, that has a value to me at least equal to the premium I pay for this. Irrational perhaps, but then car ownership almost always is. I feel the same way about women BTW.

On the new Porsches you can request a full DMI readout as part of the PPI. These are very revealing. You can tell exactly how the car was previously driven. I looked at one car with 10,000 miles for example that had obviously only been driven in stop and go traffic, and only on drives of 7 or 8 minutes each. A commuter car that was never warmed up properly and never taken out of third gear. Despite the low mileage this is a car I wouldn't willingly buy when there are alternatives available. You can also tell if a car has been over-reved repeatedly etc. Extremely useful info.

I like low-mileage women as well. Small world.

But what if she's well maintained?

Human bodies have a service life just like machines do. So all things being reasonably equal, younger is better. :)

What would be the equivalent of the DMI readout there?

I wasn't aware of the possibility to request DMI data as part of a PPI. How far back does this go?

Cheers,

George

As far as I know, the life of the car.

Got the model right now...
 

Wife informed me last night it was a Matrix and, in her opinion, it made the Prius look good which is a major feat. Transmission died at four and less than 60K, go figure. Definately not the transmissions fault.

Low mileage, or newer? Remember, you need to stay at lower RPMs during the break-in. I think a newer model with more miles would probably be more fun.:cool: