Considering a 911 - need advice

[DARISC]

My 915 equipped, '82 SC ROW w/SSI's & Dansk 2 in, 2 out, makes probably 220 hp. The 915 was rebuilt by the previous owner's mech at 68k miles. The odo just turned 200k and, while 1 to 2 shifts now require a bit of "finesse", the trans works just fine and I drive the car HARD, NEVER shifting below 3k and running up to redline once at least every 2nd or 3rd time I drive it.

An SC has a cable operated clutch and has a totally different feel than a G50 Carrera, which is hydraulically operated and spongy feeling. There is just no question that the SC is visceral and raw, all aspects of its character connecting the driver much more directly to the machine than a G50 Carrera, which has more the feel of a Grand Tourer than a pure sports car.

915's are criticized by less than adept drivers as "vague" because the shift lever gives no feedback as to where it is relative to the gear you want to move it into. That's very true and one must "learn" the transmission, perhaps analogous to developing muscle memory learning the frets on a guitar, to learn where the gears are - and they are always in EXACTLY the same place.

915's don't use conventional synchro rings and if the trans is bang shifted its life will be very short. SC's are not meant for drag racing and don't suffer ham fisted drivers lightly. One must develop the feel, when up against the synchros, for when to move the lever.

My SC is my first and only Porsche. I was shopping for an SC or Carrera until I drove both and got seduced by the raw, visceral character of the SC. However, I wanted a no nonsense, basic sports car, not a comfy grand tourer, so am quite happy with the Bilstein Sports, bigger torsion bar ride and the fact that I can set off car alarms at will. Others prefer a civilized Carrera.

BTW, and I've had to prove this to several other 915 drivers, the 915 can be shifted, absolutely seamlessly and super smoothly, without one snick, up and down, through all the gears, all day long, without even using the clutch.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

A Caymen for $25K? hmm..

Originally Posted by McLovin

Hmm is right!

That means they're well on the way to the $15-$18K range, where they'll become interesting.

I mentioned it in another thread...pulling into my atty's parking lot a few weeks ago, I spotted a beautiful, showroom condition '07 Cayman S. Upon finishing our business, I inquired if it was his. Yep...recently purchased with 7500 (HUNDRED) miles for 30K. I wouldn't let go of my Carrera, but I might be tempted some day. I'm not sure they'll make it down to the teens though (anytime soon), but I'd be glad to be proven wrong...they're already interesting imo and I'd bet they level off. A LOT of car for the $ imo

[aigel]

Originally Posted by KC911

I'm not sure they'll make it down to the teens though (anytime soon), but I'd be glad to be proven wrong...

Well, the timing may be the issue, but the boxsters are in the low teens now for 5 years. I don't see why a 10 year old Coxster wouldn't be there.

G

[javadog]

Originally Posted by mreid

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the 930? Powerful looking and performing, practically bulletproof after '83, and they sound wonderful.

Because, for the $30k budget here, you can't buy a 930 worth buying.

JR

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by aigel

Well, the timing may be the issue, but the boxsters are in the low teens now for 5 years. I don't see why a 10 year old Coxster wouldn't be there.

G

of course they'll all eventually be low teen (or lower) cars.

no one could think that the cayman is going to hit $20K and stop depreciating, could they?

[Steve Carlton]

A lot of great information and advice- I appreciate it. As suggested, I'll go out and drive some cars, hook up with PCA and local repair shops. I think my comfort level budget wise will put me into a SC or mid-year Carrera. The 915/G50 issue seems secondary, pending driving them. Even though there's good value in a 964 (as well as early 996s, I really like the look of the earlier ones with the Fuchs wheels.

Here's something I saw on eBay, perhaps heading for a price too high, but maybe not. Red wouldn't be my first choice, and I think I'd rather not have a whale tail. I just want something modest and tasteful.

Porsche : 911 28k miles in Porsche | eBay Motors

[DonDavis]

Then SC or Carrera it is. Excellent choices! That ebay item at 30k is a lot. Take your time and look at ( and drive ) many,many examples. Keep in mind, your search field means it would need to be a very special car to bring that kind of coin. Nearly every single car in that range is going to depreciate, too. Sadly, it's a used car and will decrease in value a bit more. Even though it's a Porsche.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by McLovin

of course they'll all eventually be low teen (or lower) cars.

no one could think that the cayman is going to hit $20K and stop depreciating, could they?

The nice thing on an air cooled 911 is that it will never tank in price. You may spend money keeping it up but there is nothing left under $15k these days that's even half way decent. Buying a classic / icon never is a bad idea IMHO. I doubt the Coxster will ever get there.

G

[Steve Carlton]

This is what I'd be after. Pic posted by mthomas58 in the dog thread...

[speeder]

That car looks nice but I'm really not into the blingy wheel treatment. I think that the stock anodysed finish was exquisite and making them shiny really cheapens the car. YMMV.

Here is what one of my rear 8s looked like after refinishing on my SC:



I will admit that I am opinionated as all get-up when it comes to these cars. When they're right, they make my knees buckle. Most I see are all wrong.

[speeder]

I miss this one.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by aigel

Well, the timing may be the issue, but the boxsters are in the low teens now for 5 years. I don't see why a 10 year old Coxster wouldn't be there.

G

Originally Posted by McLovin

of course they'll all eventually be low teen (or lower) cars.

no one could think that the cayman is going to hit $20K and stop depreciating, could they?

Boxsters are a dime-a-dozen, and I for one don't give 'em a second look (despite how they might be performance wise). The Cayman, on the other hand, is the only new Porsche since the 993 that does "IT" for me, and I rarely see 'em. I think the secondary market that think like I do will keep the price above 20 for a while. Down to the teens eventually...sure (particularly if not in good condition), but I don't see that happening anytime soon for well kept examples. Time will tell...

[speeder]

Originally Posted by McLovin

In a perfect world, though, I'd have a nicely set up, unmodified MFI 72 or 73, and drive that sucker every day. Unfortunately, I've been priced out of that market, probably forever.

The price of all the 89 and earlier 911s have really gone through the roof in the last year. It's weird. I've never seen 911 prices jump like this in the 25 years I've been buying, selling and owning Porsches.

I bought my perfect condition '88 for $16K a few years ago. It looks like it's a 25K car now. It doesn't look like you can get an under 90K, original, no stories G50 car for less than mid/low 20s anymore (or, at least, it would be a lot harder than it was even a year ago).

And the prices of early cars (pre-74), wow. I just can't believe the asking price on so many that I see advertised these days, for just "ordinary" stuff (halfazzed modified '70 T, etc.) It seems like asking prices (it's hard to verify actual selling) have pretty much doubled in the last 2-3 years.

My big problem with early cars is not the prices, (although they suck), it's the fact that there are never any good ones for sale anymore. At least not in any public venues. Early cars have been steadily sucked out of the country for 10 years now and what's left is schit. All I see on eBay is 2nd and 3rd rate restored cars for crack-smoking prices. Just shiny junk, the scraps of what's left of the hobby. Original paint, unmolested low-mileage cars are non-existent in the marketplace and they used to be very common. A large percentage of Porsche owners historically have kept their cars garage queens.

My interest has shifted to newer 911s because they are better cars and under-valued rather than over-valued in the market place.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by KC911

Boxsters are a dime-a-dozen, and I for one don't give 'em a second look (despite how they might be performance wise). The Cayman, on the other hand, is the only new Porsche since the 993 that does "IT" for me, and I rarely see 'em. I think the secondary market that think like I do will keep the price above 20 for a while. Down to the teens eventually...sure (particularly if not in good condition), but I don't see that happening anytime soon for well kept examples. Time will tell...

It's funny but even though I know that Caymans are awesome cars, I can't get past their looks. They look like garbage to me and 911s still look beautiful. That matters to me in a car, especially a non-essential fun car.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by speeder

It's funny but even though I know that Caymans are awesome cars, I can't get past their looks. They look like garbage to me and 911s still look beautiful. That matters to me in a car, especially a non-essential fun car.

I'm not so proud that I won't pick up a piece of garbage if I see it laying around ; I've seen less than a handful around here...maybe that's part of the appeal for me...I like 'em. I like 'em a LOT, but the 911 ain't going anywhere...just "move over and share some space"

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by speeder

I miss this one.

Now how can you be so emotional about a platypus car?

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by id10t

Of the 911s, I think the "best" is the 3.2L engined '84 to '89 cars, the best of which are the '88 and '89 with the G50 transmission. If you want a rarer one, the M491 cars were made from '84 to '89, just over 1000 made, factory turbo look cars.

Came across one on the Monterey craigslist. Not for me, as I'm thinking more low-key. I suspect if this M491 was a good car, the seller would have put more effort into that ad.

Denis' SC is exactly the look I'd be after, even the color is perhaps my favorite.



Black 85 Porsche 911 with the M491 package (Turbo Look)

[onewhippedpuppy]

If otherwise in great condition that's a decent price for a factory turbo-look car. They sell for a pretty big premium.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Here's something I saw on eBay, perhaps heading for a price too high, but maybe not.

Porsche : 911 28k miles in Porsche | eBay Motors

That's the quality of car I'd be looking at. Miles better than the black C2 posted earlier, which wouldn't get a second glance from me.

I'd suggest searching on cars.com, when you get serious. Autotrader is full of old ads for cars that are no longer for sale and auctions like eBay often don't allow enough time to check out a car prior to buying it.

JR

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Here's something I saw on eBay, perhaps heading for a price too high, but maybe not. Red wouldn't be my first choice, and I think I'd rather not have a whale tail. I just want something modest and tasteful.

Porsche : 911 28k miles in Porsche | eBay Motors

Those are some of the worst photos I've seen in a while. That is actually a Guards Red car but I had to read the color tag to be sure. That color looks a lot lighter/better in person.