If you're talking about me, that's not my intent. I'm trying to give advice to the original poster and sometimes I feel that it's appropriate to challenge something that is more "internet wisdom" than fact. Let's use the discussion that preceded your comments as an example.

If I were to summarize the "accepted wisdom", everybody knows that a 911 of this era ('80's, give or take) had a "fully galvanized" body. It came with a 10 year rust warranty. And, 25 years later, if it was cared for properly, rust should not be an issue, so it's not worth checking for it. And, driving a car in the rain does it no harm, nor does high mileage. Let's look a little deeper...

Porsche did not make their bodies from mild steel, then hot-dip galvanize them. They used a coated steel that was developed by the Thyssenkrupp company in Europe, which was esssentially a sheet of steel that was galvanized before Porsche got it. They developed a welding process that they claimed would allow molten zinc to flow back over the weld area, thus keeping the coating intact. Looking at how they built bodies back in the 80's I could not see this (it looked like normal welding to me) but let's assume they were correct. The completed shell was then dipped in a coating (let's call it a primer) and some areas were sprayed with a rubberized undercoating. When Porsche painted a 911 shell, it was partially assembled. Some of the removable panels were painted separately, although they were installed on a fixture that also held the body. This meant that not every surface on every panel got paint. All of the visible exterior surfaces were fully painted; lots of the interior surfaces got nothing more than overspray and some areas got no paint at all. After further assembly, a few areas got additional undercoating.

On a 911 tub, there is a little "shelf" adjacent to the front fender mounting flange. It is more or less horizontal and got little to no paint or undercoating when the bodies were painted. The filler tube for the windshield washer tank passes adjacent to it and creates a sort of dam. Over time, if a car is driven in rainy weather, this area fills up with dirt. Every time it gets wet, it stays that way for a period of time. Sooner or later, the zinc coating is completely sacrificed in this area and bare steel is exposed. Rust begins. It's not usually a problem on the right side of the car, because there is no rubber hose on that side to trap the dirt. Cars that don't see much rain use don't have much of a problem, either.

What of the warranty? Well, as it turns out, it's not a warrany against rust, it's a warranty against rust perforation. You have to have a hole completely through a panel for it to be in effect. And, the owner had to do his part as well. Porsche intended for the cars to recieve a thorough check at a dealer (annual, or bi-annual, I don't recall) to identify and correct any defects in the paint or undercoating, for the life of the warranty. I'd wager this was seldom done.

This is just one example of how the amount and type of use plays a part in the condition of a car many years down the road. You can have two cars that are equally shiny and cared for on the outside and one might be great and the other headed for the repair shop.

I'd encourage the original poster to get familiar with the potential pitfalls of these cars, so he knows what to look for, or knows what to direct others to look for, so he can make an informed decision. Some of them are well documented in books on the 911, others not at all.

JR

In this photo, note the overall cleanliness of the trunk, which is evidence of care in the ownership. The cleaner part of the inner fender is also typical of someone that periodically cleans underneath the car. The dirty areas to the right of the photo show areas that are more difficult to reach, therefore the dirt layer is fairly thick there. This is the 90k, Sand Diego car I referenced earlier.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1346425340.jpg

Thanks Dottore - how about model years?

G

All the help so far has been great, and I appreciate it. I'm starting to like the Cayman S more and more. Seems like a tremendous value, with modern conveniences, reliability, and ferocious handling. The 2-seater aspect is an advantage for me- one person only required for carpool lanes. I get a company car to cover more practical needs.

Cayman/Boxster are absolutely unbeatable values. It's a different world when it comes to replacing tires or having any significant work done, but the newer engine (in all Caymans and in Boxsters from mid 05) is proving to be very reliable.

Very different experiences, early 911s vs. mid-engine liquid-cooled Porsches. I bounce back and forth between them myself, and never regret the one I'm driving.

As Denis said, a $17,000 car can quickly become a $27,000 car. I'm not ruling it out, by any means. Just much higher risk with a 25 year old car.

Yes, that $9500, 227K-mile Carrera I bought needed a couple wheel bearings and the axle bearings were getting loose. It also had some bogus aftermarket chip in it that advanced the spark radically. So it did cost me another $1800 or so to get things right. We call that stuff "deferred maintenance" and "bad decisions by PO." Both will likely cost you money on a cheaper used 911. If you're not a risk taker, you can go for the best vintage 911 regardless of price. As always, in buying a used car, you're buying the owner as much as the car, so look for receipts, and especially mechanics' notes on the work orders.

Pulled the trigger on the '85 Slate Gray Coupe that I saw on eBay. PPI was done today and the shop owner said the car looked like it had 10K miles on it (it's 52,700). Dry as a bone underneath with cosmoline still on it and the shocks, compression within 5 lbs from min to max, 4.1% max leakdown, etc. Appears to all be original paint and bodywork, pending final confirmation Monday. AC holding pressure, but needs a recharge. Good tires with lots of tread, replacing front pads only (60% worn).

Got a lot of help from Dan at RMG over the phone and he called the shop doing the PPI as well.

Congrats Steve!

Great... Can wait to see some pics.

Btw, start shopping for a new Avatar :D

Congrats! Pics are required. I'd be curious as to what led you to decide on the Carrera.

Congrats, Steve.

Steve, that sounds like a grand car. Shows they are out there.

Thanks for the congrats! I'm looking forward to this.

I suppose as most guys have, I've always wanted to own one. My dad had a '69 911T and the whole thing appealed to me- the bulging fenders leading to the headlights, the sound of the engine, the dash, the quality of workmanship. For me the mid-year 911s have the most appealing look with the Fuchs wheels. I started to veer towards a Caymen (which kind of looks to me like a Porsche Dino), but I'm really more into the driving experience and I like the classic 911 looks.

Awesome! A couple of small notes: your car is Slate Blue, not Slate Grey, (which was also a Porsche color). At least if it's the eBay car we were discussing before on the thread. Also, it is not a "mid-year car". I understand what you mean, but in air-cooled 911s, '65-'73 are early cars, '74-'77 are called mid-year cars and then SCs and Carreras. Yours is a Carrera, much better than a mid-year car in the world of air-cooled 911s.

Yes- Slate Blue, my mistake. I know you weren't crazy about the beige interior, but it works for me. Probably this was my first choice color along with Prussian Blue. I must have got confused about mid-year cars. I like Carrera better as the shorthand. When I think of mid-year cars, I think of '63-67 Corvettes, anyway.

Congratulations! That looked like a superb car and an excellent buy.

congrats!


now...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/700431-critical-safety-issues-when-buying-911-a.html

How about some good pictures of that stallion? The eBay pics were not that good.

two words: track it

Why? Every single 911 should not be thrashed at the track. I mean, if that's his intention, fine. But if so, he could have spent $10-15k less for one that's hit some concrete on the freeway or something.

There is nothing wrong with owning something really nice and preserving it. Some people enjoy that. Run-down examples that are perfect for track cars are a dime-a-dozen. :cool:

On the other hand, if that was just missing the green font-- nevermind.

I think he was being facetious. Be crazy to track a minty one.

Actually I wasn't being facetious. While others are free to disagree, I don't own things to save for the next owner. A 911 cannot be driven anywhere near the limit on public streets and to attempt it is crazy. The track is where the cars shine imho, especially the older ones which are so visceral.

You don't have to turn it into a track beast, but unless you want to shine it and look at it, I think they beg to be driven hard. And the only safe place to do that is at the track.

A good 911 does not have to be driven anywhere near its performance limits to be enjoyed. 98% of Porsche owners will never push their car to the limit and in fact have no interest in doing so. They are fun cars to run to the store for a loaf of bread in.

Ferry Porsche once said, (when asked about the need for Porsche level performance and 150 mph top speed in a road car when the U.S. speed limit was 55 mph), that a good sports car should be fun to drive around the block. I agree 100%.

A very small number of owners, (including me), are interested in taking their car to the track to test their driving skills. It's not testing the car, unless you have a really deluded opinion of your skills.

Most do not want to "shine it and look at it". They want to drive it. But not necessarily at the track. I read your post as serious, (not facetious), but think that you're all wrong regarding this car. It will get driven and enjoyed on the streets and highways. :cool:

Well, people said I was wrong about tracking a 41K mile pristine '79 SC. And instead I went down the slippery slope for 4 extremely fun seasons/years of my life on the track. I'd do it over again in a heartbeat given the same set of circumstances. But everyone has different needs/desires. As they say, there's a butt for every seat.

But to be fair, IIRC, your decision to track that car and modify it heavily came after you hit some concrete blocks on the freeway with it and basically destroyed it from a *pristine original* standpoint. Wasn't it significantly damaged?

It seems to me that you were driving it on the street and wanting to preserve its condition before that happened. I could be wrong, it's happened before. :)

Surely you did not seek out the cleanest, low-mileage garage queen you could find in order to turn it into a track beast?? :confused:

When it comes to sports car or MC ownership, there is a world of in-between "shining it and looking at it" and making a track beast. And it's where most of enthusiasts live.

Sounds like a great car Steve - Congrats!

You should check the date code on the tires. If they are over 6 years, I'd get them replaced. They will not be safe to run, especially at speed. ;)

George

Amen to that. My Carrera came with mint condition Bridgestones with great tread.....that were 12 years old.:eek: Those got changed out pretty quick.

Here's another great thread about basic maintenance. It's probably very relevant to your new car if it has spent much time sitting.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/189572-long-term-commonly-neglected-maintenance.html

I have never raced/tracked my P car but I will choose a place when I can open her up out in the country or off ramp where there are no cars. I am by myself - wife can't stand the g
force. No ordinary car for this guy. I am blessed. Life does not get much better when I am behind the wheel. Don't do excessive on wet/snowy/icy roads though.

For the price range, and what you prefer, I would say 87-89. That's what I have too.

How true. But, to test your skills, as you put it, is a lot more enjoyable when the car is set up. I went to Willow once in my S on Dunlop street tires. I and Tyson drove the car and it was a handful. Not enjoyable at all in 8 and 9. The times I returned to Willow I was on Khumo track tires and drove well.

At least that's what they told me.

I have driven many miles of very spirited driving in the canyons and mountain roads. I'm glad I'm over that. I don't even play too much on the on ramps. Never know about the road until you've already had a lap.

Speeder and Ferry are right about going around the block.

As long as there is no traffic. :) Sports cars don't make traffic any better to bear.

Congrats on the '85 Carrera - the one from COS right? Have fun Steve!

I didn't say make it a track beast, but rather to track it. I think that it is a mistake to drive it "enthusiastically" on public roads. Doing a track day lets you experience some degree of what the car is capable of. There are a whole bunch of "enthusiasts" who drive like arses on the street and on "canyon strafing" runs. As someone who rides a motorcycle though some of those canyons (at legal speeds), I find some of these drivers extremely dangerous.

On the street a P-car is good for the sound and the looks. If you want it for the performance, I think it needs to go to the track. Ymmv.

When Mulholland got so famous that a photog was/is selling pics, it was time to stand down.

+1

I quit driving my cars on the track when I concluded that a street car is poorly set up for serious track use. Inadequate safety protection, poor engine and brake cooling, brake pads that weren't up to the task, etc. Not to mention an insurance policy that ceased to be in force the moment I ventured onto the track.

I drive my cars, and my bikes, on the street. They get driven enthusiastically but not irresponsibly.

JR

I love those spirited drives on public roads. Virgin roads. Unfamiliar roads. High speeds. A great meal waiting at the end.

A buddy of mine organizes these so called "Raids" from time to time. Just a handful of cars on a nightime raid to Paris or Amsterdam or Beaune etc....on a combination of B roads and fast roads. There's always good food involved, a beer or two, and some serious adult lunacy. A few years we took part in the infamous "Five laps around the Vatican" race. Even the police joined in with their Guzzis and Fiats. And then we all ended up in a bar that served tbe best Carbonara in all of Christendom.

The track is fun, but sometimes too hardcore and competitive. At least for me. And I've always hated suiting up in hot weather. To each his own.

It is, but it's still the best place to let it all hang out. Most DE's don't require more than a long sleeve shirt and closed toe shoes. The rest is discretionary. Not that it's a bad idea. I want just as good of protection on the road, if possible and practical. I feel pretty good in the Boxster in that respect.

If I were starting all over, I would have built a spec Boxster. Marvelous little cars that handle very neutrally. 3.2 and lightened, they are fast.

But, I digress. The 911 is a superb car and I can see why everyone should have that experience just once. Some will get hooked.

COS? This is the one that was on eBay in Colorado Springs. Apparently, it won a concourse (not sure how recently). It's pristine and I'll just enjoy it occasionally on the street. I'm looking for the sound and feel on the street, driven briskly. I'd probably bring the tail around on the track. More likely to put a bike on the track, as I've done a couple of times before. Just got an HP2 Sport...

Thanks! Now I am off to the kitchen to make some Carbonara...