Exactly - the fact that it was called an "IED" (I always thought they only had those in the middle east - now we have them at weird guy's houses?) tells you it wasn't a pipe bomb, otherwise they would have called it by its name.

I am not saying the cops planted guns at the guy's home, but they certainly could have "found them" closer by than they were. Who is at the scene first and running the investigation? You really think they aren't occasionally re-arranging things in their favor?

G

I do usually have a loaded handgun within arm's reach, a loaded shotgun next to the bed and another loaded handgun in the night stand. My neighbors have never seen them, so they'd probably not ever call the cops and say I had pointed any at them. If the cops were pointing guns at me in my doorway, I'd have my hands up and comply with their orders.

Amen to that. I haven't been pulled over in quite some time, but when I do I sit still with both hands in plain sight on the steering wheel. If a cop had his gun drawn I wouldn't even blink.

Sounds to me like this guy has a way of finding and defusing trouble, in the process saving multiple innocent lives. He's also one hell of a shot. The guy with a baby sounds a little Dirty Harry, but it also sounds like it was very much a tense and volatile situation. It's not like they showed up because of a noise complaint, the guy was threatening a neighbor with a gun. Not exactly normal balanced behavior.

I can assure you that is not the case in LA County......

Saw this on the evening news. Not a plus for the community.

They're probably saying "IED" instead of "Pipe Bomb" nowdays 'cause it sounds scarier/more "military." Say a dude has a pipe bomb and he's a crazy guy, say he's got an IED and now he's a terrorist.

I was gonna say they should get Clint to play this cop but I was afraid it'd degenerate into empty chair jokes too quickly.

Going to bed with you must be a barrel of laughs. ;)

Double-barrel. ;)

...so non compliance with police orders is now immediately punishable by death?

You guys know NOTHING about the situation yet you are comfortable pronouncing a death sentence. I expect that on PARF, not here. Maybe he couldnt put his hands up because he was holding a baby. Maybe he needed to put the baby down rather than drop it?

The simple fact is that the police got a call from someone about MWAG and responded. A man came to the door with a baby, and then didnt drop the baby and put his hands up, moved his arm, and was killed for it. I can think of 100 situations that could play out like this and not deserve execution.

The cop that shot him was ready to shoot someone because he already had a rifle trained on the guy. Are you telling me that he felt so threatened by an arm movement because he couldnt pull the trigger in time if the guy did pull a gun? prety sure i can twitch my finger faster than any of you can draw and fire.

Dissapointed to say the least.

Chris, Chris, Chris...why are you trying to be rational on a gun thread? PPOT or PARF, when it comes to gun threads, it's all the same. When the going gets strange, the strange turn pro. SmileWavy

Captain: "What we have here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348579379.jpg

One of my favorite movies! Seems appropriate here... Was Loxas some petty miscreant or a total menace to society? It seems Peters was fairly sure. As for police framing this, I'd bet they put the best spin on it they could but I doubt they manufactured anything. This guy gave them plenty to work with all on his own.

Well, that's one of the risks you run. Though you're choosing to call this "punishable," which was not the purpose for shooting the guy and you know it. I'm not so sure, based on the article, the guy needed shooting. But he'd be alive today if he had complied with the cops' orders. It's really that simple. Even in a simple traffic stop you keep your hands where the cop can see them. I would say that goes double for a MWAG call with cops' guns trained on you. Might not be right, but I'd rather be alive than right every day of the week.

still looking for numbers
citizen killed by police vs cops killed

they add up the few shot cops every year
even keep multi-year totals by city state and national

but never give the number the cops shot or killed

I think any thing over 1 to 1 is too high
and strongly suspect the real number is 100 citizen for every shot cop

and cops always shoot first in these attacks on citizens in their homes

Nationally - numbers are pretty constant: 130-to-150 LEO's killed on the job each year. Had 6 ambushed and killed in a 2 month period here a few years ago. (3 different locations/situations).

Awful business. Based on the OP I would bet Peters is a good cop but so many shootings. You have to ask some questions. Maybe it's the area he served in but so many is really troubling.

And to shoot someone while they're carrying a child is extreme to say the least. They may have ordered him to do someone and he didn't comply. Ok... So they need to do something before he gets back inside the house. Reaching for a cell phone at that time sealed the guys fate. Based on the info in the OP I think Peters did the right thing. Think about the child... I can't imagine such a decorated officer taking that risk without justification.

This reminds me of another incident discussed here.

Some time ago there was a thread here about a cop who chased someone near a river. The video showed clearly that as the cop got closer the guy he was chasing pulled a pistol. The cop was carrying a pistol in his right hand and a stun gun in his left. As soon as he saw the pistol he used the stun gun and brought the guy down. Risky to say the least... I still think that cop was lucky and he would have been justified in shooting the guy rather than using the stun gun.

ok but where are the numbers of citizen killed by cops

or the number of bad shootings like this one
no gun on the guy
he was armed with a baby
but murdered by the state's cops

I bet the real numbers are 1-100 or way more
cop are a clear and present danger to the citizen
we have trigger happy cops who kill and stay on the force

my solution kill a citizen who is unarmed
never be a cop again anywhere

we need to weed out bad trigger happy cops
as the cops sure will never do it to themselves

shaun..i would like to pre-order the t-shirt with this quote now. i'll take two, in LARGE.

on the back you can put down.."coffee burns coming out of nose".

Sounds like James Peters looked for opportunities to kill people in situations where other officers would have looked for ways to not have to do that. It's as if he looked at it from a point of view where he gleefully "gets" to kill someone, where other officers are very reluctant when they "have" to kill someone.

There were five other officers there. I would be willing to bet not a single one of them even considered shooting a guy holding a baby, or thought for a moment he posed an immediate threat to any of them. I would be willing to bet their raction was more like "oh crap, what did he do that for?" than "thank god, he (the suspect) could have killed us". Once the deed was done, though, they fall in lockstep back to their side of the "thin blue line".

What's it going to take to bring this to an end?

I wasn't there. So I'll sit out of the arm chair quarterbacking. Sometimes the cops need to take out the trash. 7 times? damn. not so sure.

What about Peter's service record? He's a decorated cop... That has to count for something. Would a decorated cop take such a risk like shooting someone carrying a child without being sure?
Assuming he's a "good guy" he may just be unlucky or the area he served in is a Zoo.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. ;)