This is Just Wrong
 

So, I bought the double barrel shotgun from Targa911S. The one he sawed off and refinished while he was doing Henry's LC.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348935492.jpg
He sent it to my FFL of choice. I used this FFL once before and it went very well.
*( Another Pelican uses the same guy, I suppose I had an inflated impression about this FFL )*
I get an email the gun is ready for pickup. I KNOW David sent it disassembled and packaged SECURELY. When they walk out with it, it's together and I immediately ( from 10 feet away ) see a scratch on the stock. The guy put it on the counter scratch side down and begins to the transfer process. I turn it over and I can see debris on and around the scratch. I point to it and say...
"What's this? This scratch looks new."
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348935545.jpg
The guy says it probably happened in shipping. I said, " Hold on a sec, are you saying this was packaged poorly?"
"uh..." blank look.
I asked "Who assembled this?"
A voice from behind me said "I did. Why?" His name is Eric.
I asked "Was this scratch on it when you opened the package?"
Another "uh..."
I lightly touch part of the scratch and get some debris on my finger and show to the guys and say "Are you telling me this didn't happen here? Can you see this on my finger?"
Two more "uh..." and after a brief silence they both say there's no way it happened in their possession and must have happened in shipping. I added the gun came from a friend that happens to be a Gunsmith and it was recently refinished. There were a few more denials and "No ways." Eric adds he's been there 5 years and assembled many, many guns without incident. No way it happened there.
I said "Hold on just a sec" and walked out to my car to get my phone and call David. Left a vm for David, went back in.

Now Eric says he DOES believe it happened there. He went on to explain he assembled it and placed it on the counter. He added the owner walked over to measure the barrels and when he picked it up the stock dragged against the edge of their glass display case/counter.

* At this point, I'm pissed. They knew all along and were lying. *

The first guy then said "Yes, it was packaged very well and not there when I opened it. Eric went on to apologize and asked how I want to handle it. I said either the stock needs to be repaired or I need to be compensated.
He said, "No problem. We'll send it back to your guy for repair and we'll take care of it. Will that be ok?"

My phone rang, it's David calling me back. I excuse myself and step outside.
We discuss and David says it'd unlikely they'll agree to ship back and pay for repair. They're prob just throwing it out as a bargaining point. But if they want to, so be it.

Back inside.
I'm still ticked and all I could think of how this very simple transaction is going south, badly. I said, "So you're going to ship it back to David for repair and you will cover all associated cost?"

*I figured ok, maybe this is easiest. I don't like the scratch, would like it repaired correctly, they're actually agreeing to do it. Hmm, I'm fine if it goes back, I'm in no hurry.*

"Yes sir. We're very sorry this happened and we'll make it right."
Sounds good to me. So I left. I spoke with David and debrief him. He chuckles and said "We're not seeing a dime out of them."

Now it's my turn for the blank "uh..."

Judas priest on a unicycle. What a cluster f.

I called the owner, Clint the next day and sure enough, get a much different position. We had a very civil conversation but he maintains there's no proof and goes on to imply I bought some gun of some internet guy. I explain the seller is not a stranger and btw, he's a Gunsmith. He knows very well how to ship weapons. Clint said something like "How do you know it wasn't shipped that way?". Goes on about "I'm not paying for a repair that cannot be proven happened here and I'd never pay for a repair that was more that the gun is worth."
He said "Let me do some checking on the value of this gun and get an idea of repair costs. I'll call you later today."

Then I called David and debriefed that conversation. David called Clint to discuss directly. Turns out Eric answered the phone but tells David he's not allowed to discuss it. David asked to speak with Clint and got put on hold. I'll let him add his comments about that convo.

Btw, Clint never called me back.

Bottom line? I'm screwed. It happened there and they admitted it. I know I can work out a repair with David and that's not my concern. We all know he'll take care of me.

Aside from spreading the word on social media about this FFL's business approach, what am I to do?

I imagine a brick through their window would make everyone just about square on costs.

I read once about a store that kept getting its front window smashed with bricks. He put in Lexan, the thrower had the brick bounce back hit him in the head and it killed him. I think his family sued.

Sorry about this, Don. Clint has been good to me, but I haven't dealt with him since his storefront opened. When he was a home-based FFL, he was obviously a lot more hands on and personally involved. If you can't get Clint's attention, he has a table at just about every gun show around here, so you can go see him there. David, if you don't have Clint's cell phone # and want it, I can PM it to you.

Small claims court? You can usually get a decently fair decision there even though it might be a he said/he said situation. Get something like a notorized statement from David about the shipment and the fact he had the phone conversation with you backed by his cell phone record. I'd also tell them after it's all over you'll be filing a complaint with the BBB and whoever else.

Sorry this happened Don.
When I receive a firearm under those circumstances I don't open the box, just log in who it came from and the date.
I let the buyer open the box in front of me (and checking that it's not loaded, has happened once).
If Clint had stand-up-guy status, he doesn't anymore.
Jim

Don told me they opened the box to measure the barrel length, which I suppose is understandable. But nothing more than that is necessary other than verifying serial no. The last resort is to go on our local gun BBS and tell the story. That's where Clint gets most of his business, as he charges the lowest transfer fees of any FFL in the area. Make his name mud there and it will cost him some business. Though I don't know the rules there for doing this.

Integrity..is it just about gone?

Unacceptable. Please name the store so I don't use it by mistake.

When I used Clint before, he opened the box right in front of me. I mentioned that on the phone and he said "We handle WAY too many weapons to wait and open each and every one in front of the customer."

When I was in the store there were 4 employees and 2 children ( 6-8 yr olds ) and I was the only customer in the place. No one else came in while I was there. I'm not saying they are always that slow, just an observation.

I really expected them to open the box in front of me.

Btw, before Eric admitted it happened there, all 4 were offering tidbits about it not happening there and it "can't prove it". I felt like I was on some cable tv-pawn stars-reality bs show. Clearly they watch that on tv and it shows. I was very surprised and their attitude.

Shoulda whipped out your phone and started recording when they admitted to it. There's your evidence.

Targa just called me and said the shop that has my gun appears to be having phone difficulty.

I called and nothing happens. No ring, no click, no phone company message, nada.

Ok...after being on hold for TWENTY MINUTES I talked to Clint on friday. He seemed "bristled" and ready for me to be a jerk. I read that and of course that was not my approach. It never is. I have an evil twin, but I seldom send him in. I told him I really was not interested at this point about where the scratch occurred although I could attest to the fact that it was over packed if anything. I told him that OUR best interest was making OUR customer happy and I would work with him to make it right for Don. I told him that if he covered shipping both ways $40, I would fix it for $100. I charge $30 an hour for labor plus materials, we are talking about 3 hrs work. A fair and reasonable price, If the scratch was an easy fix I would take that into consideration and prorate the cost accordingly. Now that is a fair and equitable deal ...right? Well he tells me he will have to get back to me on that and as of yet I have not heard anything from him by phone or email. I tried to call him today and the number for the store does not work. Sooooo I called Don to see if maybe the place burned down or something. We talk about the situation, I ask if he has settled down and had any thoughts on the situation. He says he had a great run out in the desert over the weekend and had left all those emotions out there. I tell him that I thought about it all weekend also and had come to the conclusion that this guy was never going to make good on this so the best way to handle it was this. Just go get the gun. Then send it back to me we split the shipping and I fix it for free and send it back to him. At this point I don't hold any emotions other than Don is a good guy in a bad situation and a pelican brother. We take care of each other ..right. Done ...Movin' on here. If the guy gives Don $50.00 when he picks up the gun ..good it covers shipping and Don gets to go to McDonalds.

If Don has possession of the gun and has done the transfer paperwork, you can mail it directly to him, correct? If it's a return and repair thing, I don't think it has to go through an FFL.

Odd. I just called too, and their phone doesn't even ring. Just low-volume white noise. That's a new one for me.

His fax machine picks up, though (ouch).

Well, at least we know he's not blocking you guys.

Wow, what a dumb business move on the part of the gun shop owner. Targa, you are definitely a stand up guy!

Wow what a story. Sorry about the mess Don. Yes a good run works wonders.
David as always you're a standup guy, (I won't let it get around) ;)
As for the gun store owner, pick up the gun and ask the owner if he understands marketing? Tell him for every person you tell the story to they'll tell 10 more and so on. Is that really worth a couple hundred pesos?

Yes ..that is correct. Don and I discussed that aspect. It takes everybody out of the loop but he and I. He ships it to me as a repair, it goes in my book while in my possession, after the work is done I can ship it back directly to him as the original owner. done.

In all fairness he needs to open every box that comes in every day. He needs to get any shipped firearms into his bound book ASAP or 24hrs whichever comes first. That does not mean he gets to play with them though.
I was a bit insulted about him measuring the barrels. Really? Did you think that we as a licensee would be stupid enough to send an illegal firearm across state borders and to AZ of all places given the heat from fast and furious? Really?

Don't you want to be Big Bubba's girlfriend? :D

The situation sucks but I laughed out loud when I read this. Life is funny...or maybe just Hugh is funny :D

This place deserves a complete flame-job online and word of mouth. Schit happens. Things get scratched. It's how you handle it afterwards that separates the scumbags from the stand-up guys. What a punk move.

All that will change nothing. Guys like that just don't care. They don't get it.

Did trekkor's ex friend scratch it?

Well, ATF goes after the ignorant before the willing. I wouldn't put such a sting past them.

Man. This thread is difficult to read without simmering over.

True. I may have over reacted with that statement. I probably would have done the same before I accepted the transfer.

I think Don and I have a good plan on fixing the situation and we will proceed with that. This thread was more of a " do you guys believe this crap?" thread more than a "we need a solution" thread. Also as a warning to others that this guy is a poor choice to do any transactions with. Everyone makes mistakes...real men admit them and try to make things right.

(picturing Rob Halford on a unicycle)

HAH!!!! That is a funny thought. he might like it without the seat though.....

Might not change the guy's behavior, but it could save someone else from getting the same shaft (with no lube).

If I read this thread and found out they scratched the stock, but did the right thing (owned up to it and offered a sollution), I'd actually be more inclined to use their services. This clown is doing the exact opposite of what one should do. Apparently his reputation and name is worth less than $200. What an idiot.

I wouldn't hesitate to post a thread on AZS is you don't get any resolution or response (besides crickets chirping). YMMV.

So Motormeister has his FFL and is living in AZ ??

I guess I need to find a new local FFL. Clint was the cheapest, but I don't mind paying another $5 for someone with integrity.

Rick,

Will you let Clint know why you are switching?

Last issue I had with a small business was cleared up within two days of posting the details on Yelp. I sent the owner a copy of my review and told him it would be removed as soon as he did the right thing. After a month of jacking me around he suddenly changed his tune.

Well, it's gonna be a while before I buy any more guns by mail because of my recent musical toy buys. But I'd prefer to see how this saga ends and then perhaps chime in on a thread on our local gun BBS, AZS, where Clint is pretty well known. I don't know if Don has a high enough post count to start a thread there on this, but I do. So I'll see how this ends before choosing the nuclear option. It's a small world over here and all the gun guys tend to run into each other now and then. I'm still holding out hope Clint will do the right thing.

A lot of great comments. Thanks.

The jury is still out. I still have to walk into his shop and make the transfer. It's doubtful he'll want to converse but I'll listen if he does. But barring some serious back-pedaling, the damage is done.
This is the place...
C3 Arms - Supporting The 2nd Amendment and Your Freedom

The owner is Clint. I don't remember his last name and can't find the last transfer I did with him. I know I won't be using this guy's services.

Anyhoo,

On Saturday, a bunch of us went to McDowell Mountain Regional Park and camped. Several others met us after they participated in this...
Javelina Night Run - September 29, 2012

We ran about 5 miles then drank beer till 3am. Good turnout and during my run I came to the decision to just get the gun, have David fix it and go shooting. Just about every other option turns into a mountain of time trying to get him to "own" his shop's actions. In the end, he's still gonna be a dick. He's not worth my time. Besides, if this had all went perfect, I wouldn't have spoken with David.

Wait...

And that's when it hit me. All this bs has made me closer to David.
So that's my take-away. :)

Ain't dat right, David?

Hey, I didn't get a call for that desert shooting trip. WTF? Clint's last name is Holeman.

Oh, no shooting. Just a bunch of runners talking about gel pacs and recovery time.
I was there for the scenery. And the full moon.

Went on the sight, you can send an email. A lot of emails saying we know what happened and are going to pass it on might persuade Mr. Holeman.