Considering a 911 - need advice

[Steve Carlton]

Always liked the 911, and now seriously considering owning one. Let's say a budget of $20-30K. I'm no expert on this, so asking for some insight...

I get a car at work, so this would be a car used sparingly. I don't like the headlights of the 996, so I'm left with 993s and what, mid-80s Carreras? I like the coupe roofline, no cabrio, maybe a targa with a couple roofline? I want to get a low mile example that still has the near new feel to it. Questions:

- I like the look of the mid-80s Carreras. I suppose there are some super low mile examples out there (like that Guards Red turbo that was on What's My Car Worth. Is there any advantage to that generation 911 vs the 993. More visceral?

- what years did the 993 span? Any years to seek out or avoid? How about the predecessor?

Anybody know of a car that would fit my criteria? I still need to think of what other toy I could get... maybe an NSX, maybe a Lotus, maybe a first-class 2002tii, I dunno.

[island911]

On the older 911's I'll say this, mileage is not something to consider. Condition is.

The older you go in the 911's the more visceral the responsiveness. --Even if the big power isn't there, the throttle response is there. (missing in the stock EFI) Also, no power steering in the older cars.

[Steve Carlton]

Just poking around craigslist, I'm thinking the 993 is barely within reach. I like the looks of the '84-88s better than the 964s. So, I guess my priority would be a super nice '84-88 coupe...

[Shuie]

Do it. I wish I could do it again. Maybe I'd do it a little differently than I did, but either way, I still wish I could drive one. Go for it.

[Evans, Marv]

I like the 993's, but they are going for a premium. A second choice for me would be an '87 or '88 with the G50 tranny. The long noses like my '69 are getting to the point where they probably will be driven less and less as time goes on as the available number of them lessens and parts become harder to get.

[mikester]

In California smog checks will not be your friend. I know with the pre-84 models - the SCs that smog checks suck. Expect regular tune-ups to meet emissions requirements.

Mine was an '81 and to be fair a previous owner (by my understanding at least) has swapped out the US CIS components with some European versions and so the car had great power but was smog check challenged. Always a 'gross polluter' always needed to be tuned through smog and ultimately that is the reason I let it go - got tired of that.

Now - in CA I would look at a 996, Boxster or Cayman without hesitation and I'm in the same price range as you and considering coming back into the fold myself in the next year or two. I would be interested in hearing about the smogability of the 84-88 models as I do like the look but I like the round-eyed water coolers too plus I like the modern stuff in them and the fact that they are quite good on emissions standards with some models even being PZEV. Makes selling my green minded wife easier.

993s are the pinnacle in my eyes though - lots of other folks too based on the price.

[speeder]

I've seen a couple of Carreras and SCs that looked enticing recently when I poke around the listings. Not too many, but a few. Good cars are getting less common in the marketplace as time goes on, IMO, and only the good ones are worth owning.

That said, 911s in general give back a lot of pleasure in terms of driving and all of the other sensory rewards. They are perfectly useable as an everyday car if you don't need a lot of room for hauling people and junk.

[911boost]

The car from "What's My Car Worth" is a 1994 911 Turbo 3.6, they are pretty pricey right now..

Don't overlook the 1990-1994 911's, they can be a good value and a bit more refined than the 80's Carreras but still maintain a lot of the same air cooled goodness...

[aigel]

The 993 is out of question if you want low miles and 'new car smell'. Those still go for $40k plus.

The G50 carerra is nice, but IMHO it is a lot of $ for what you get. I would start looking at 964 pictures a little more. Maybe it will grow on you. You can now get a 964 in better shape than a G50 carerra for the same price.

Or just forget about the new car smell and buy a well maintained and upgraded 993 for $30k - those are definitely out there. Buy a can of 'new car smell' if you need to.

G

[JJ 911SC]

From my experience, unless you buy something that has absolutely everything that you want and more... Plan a few $$$$ for next year up-grades (SSI, Dansk Sport 2/2, 17" Euromeister, CE Wires, AT Intake... Going PMO EFI + TECgt soon to name a few...

As per aigel recomendation, here is your cheapest upgrade

[Rick V]

Don't rule out the little SC's. When I went through this a few years ago it was the SC/Carrera thing and the more of them I drove the more the SC called to me.
Having said that, it took me two years of looking to find the one I wanted.
Go drive as many as you can and when you hop behind the wheel of the right one, you will know.

[masraum]

'84-89 - 3.2L Carrera
'90-94 - 964 (3.6L)
'95-97 - 993 (3.6L)

I'd go for the '87-89 3.2L carrera. They have the G-50 transmission which should be bulletproof. The fuel injection on the 3.2L carreras is a better, more modern system than on the previous years. I wouldn't expect to have any problems getting them past the smog folks. I know that mine always passed with flying colors, but I guess Cali could be different. The 3.2L cars were still pretty old school. They did have power brakes, but they weren't over boosted. They did not have power steering. I loved the way they sounded and felt and drove.

The 964 is a much more modern car. Porsche redesigned the 911 for this series and from what I understand, 85% of the parts for the 964 were different than from the previous model. These had power brakes and power steering. Also, instead of Fuchs wheels, they used larger cast wheels, instead of torsion bars they used coil springs and they had a 3.6 L engine with dual plugs. They should have more power and get better mileage as well as handling better with a better ride. They are also much more aerodynamic. I'd suggest driving a few of both to get a feel.

The 993 was another step forward for the traditional air cooled 911. They are an even more modern update over the 964. Many consider them the pinnacle of the "traditional" 911 being the last of the air cooled line.

911s are actually fairly easy to work on if you are comfortable with a wrench. Parts aren't cheap, but with Pelican Parts at your disposal, most things are reasonable. Still, some repairs can be quite expensive compared to your average Honda or Toyota.

As always, get the best model you can afford, meaning, get the car that has is in the best shape and can be proven to be better cared for than all of the rest of the cars that you look at. Be prepared to spend some money, or time on the regular maintenance to ensure that it's a long lived, reliable vehicle and it will be reliable and long lived.

Be prepared for the search to take a while. 911s weren't high volume cars like a toyota corolla. Don't get excited and buy the 1st or even the 5th one that you drive (unless its perfect). Plan for the search for the right car to take a while, 6 months isn't a bad starting point. Fortunately, they say, that half of the Porsches sold in the US were sold in Cali, so you are in the right place to be searching.

[Halm]

I am a huge SC advocate, I simply love them. But as Mikester points out, CA Smog can be problematic.

So maybe take a step back and think again about the 996. In particular think about a 2003/2004 C4S. They can be had in your price range. Find a nice one with solid maintenance, budget $2,000 for a new IMS and whatever else it needs, then go enjoy. This is probably the most bang for the buck you can get in the 911 world these days.

[onewhippedpuppy]

For your price range, might as well remove the 993 from your list. Nice ones, even with high mileage, are nearly always $30k+.

For a water pumper, take a good hard look at a G50 Carrera and 964. The G50 gearbox is a huge upgrade over the 915, and the 964 improves the entire package in a big way. Have you looked at a 964 in person? In my opinion they don't photograph well and look good in person.

Also take a good look at the 996, they are fantastic cars and easy to live with daily. Simply the most Porsche bang for the buck right now. You can get a 2002+ for your budget which brings a bigger 3.6l motor, better interior, and a host of other improvements.

[id10t]

Of the 911s, I think the "best" is the 3.2L engined '84 to '89 cars, the best of which are the '88 and '89 with the G50 transmission. If you want a rarer one, the M491 cars were made from '84 to '89, just over 1000 made, factory turbo look cars.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I like the 993's, but they are going for a premium. A second choice for me would be an '87 or '88 with the G50 tranny. The long noses like my '69 are getting to the point where they probably will be driven less and less as time goes on as the available number of them lessens and parts become harder to get.

Marv,

Why a G50 tranny?

It has been my experience in the G50 cars that the clutch is way too stiff. I find it way stiffer than a newly rebuilt 915 clutch. I know some folks love them but in a Carerra I find it not to my liking.

[VincentVega]

As always, get the best model you can afford, meaning, get the car that has is in the best shape

Cant stress that enough.

Nothing wrong with a 915 trans, assuming it's working properly. Great deals can be had on 84-86 911's. Good motor and injection but less $$ compared to a g50 car.

[Jim Richards]

Steve C., I bought my 964 garage queen about a year and a half ago for $28.5k. It was (is) super clean with 32k miles at the time of purchase. I've owned a 993 C2 and a 73E/2.7RS-spec, and I've driven SCs and 3.2 Carreras. The 964 and the 73E hot rod are my favorites, with the 964 edging out the 73E for non-track use. Good luck with your search for the right 911 for you.

[javadog]

I'd sugest that you start by driving a few examples of these cars. They drive so differently from one another, that you might find one of them that you enjoy more than the others.

A few things I'd suggest, in contradiction to the above advice:

Mileage does matter. Condition is the first thing I'd look at but if you have a budget of $30k, that will buy you a really low mileage example of an SC or a Carrera 3.2.

An SC is not hard to smog. People that have problems getting one past the smog testing have a car that isn't running right. That's either becuase something needs to be fixed or an idiot has worked on it.

Each of the cars has a problem or two that can bite you in the ass. I'd suggest buying a few books on the 911 and learning more about each version. Bruce Anderson's book is a good place to start. Excellence has a buyer's guide out right now on the newstands.

A 915 isn't an inherently bad transmission, nor is a G50 bulletproof. They both have issues, they both can be killed in under 40,000 miles by an idiot, and they both shift fine if they are in good condition and shifted properly. People that ***** about a 915 have a worn transmission. New, they shifted great.

Each year, Porsche added content to the cars. They got more plush, and fatter. I prefer the feel of a '78-79 SC. You might prefer something different. Actually, I take it a step further than that and prefer a Carrera 3.0 over an SC. Similar money in this country (although much harder to find and a low mileage one probably doesn't exist) but it's worth a lot more on the world market and has more appreciation potential. Also, it drives better... for me.

Stick to a coupe. If you can find one without A/C, so much the better, given where you live.

Buy a stock car if you can, not one that has been heavily modified.

Get it checked out before you buy it.

JR

[onewhippedpuppy]

You might consider hooking up with your local PCA to drive a few different examples. When I was considering a 951 I appealed to the Kansas City Wrenching Society, a subset of the KC PCA that has frequent wrenching parties and owns a good number of 951s. I had several offers to come to KC and drive member's cars, which I took advantage of. Eventually I bought an '87 that belonged to one of their members.

You have to be a little creative to check these cars out in person, the local Carmax doesn't exactly have a lot full of SCs, Carreras, and 964s.