Well.... the body work will come last, I do agree that the stickers on the rear look a little suspect.... right now we are removing the engine because a headbolt is broken:(..... These cars are put together well, every nut, bolt, washer etc is tight, and more than half of them seem to break. I will say this, however, that the engine removal process is not as bad as I thought it would be... Can the engine be assembled completely before putting it back in the car(wiring harness issues)?

Porsche flat sixes do not have head bolts. They have head studs, with nuts on the ends. Make sure that you send it to someone good or start a thread on the 911 tech board here and ask about a million questions. If you are not familiar with Porsche air-cooled engines, all of the small block Chevy knowledge on earth will avail you nothing.

It is not a *common sense needed only* or general mechanical knowhow will do. These engines have issues that are unique to them and specific to the model and vintage of the mill you are working on. It's nothing you can't handle if you know what you're doing, but that's a big "IF".

Good luck! :cool:

And yes, the engine is removed and installed complete for the most part. In most models, 100% complete down to the air cleaner.

Get Wayne's Engine rebuild book. Also get the Bentley Manual for the SC.

You should NOT be breaking any hardware except for head studs. What are you trying to do? Replace head studs? Please start reading here with a search for "broken head studs".

I think you really have something here with that car - please make sure you educate yourself on the details before taking it apart or spring in for a good mechanic.

JMHO - very cool car.

G

Do not contact Motor Meister for your engine needs!!! :)

I was thinking the same thing but didn't even want to mention their name. That would be tragic I they got their greasy mitts on this car.

Yeah, specifically a VDO-style boost gauge with a tell-tale. Don't suppose you got the little triangular key to re-set it...

Good luck running a CIS 930 at 1.2 bar. That's something people did in the 80's. You really shouldn't touch the boost dial unless you know what the effect is on AFR's - and the numbers you're looking for on a 930 (hint: 13 at full chat is way lean).

There's better/safer ways to make 100+HP more than stock than turning up the boost. You can make 370 at the rollers with stock boost, stock valves/ports, stock manifold and CIS.

That's a lot for stock.

Last time I check, North Hollywood still has the key.

Kreme 930,

The red needle is stuck up there is because the last time that was where the highest boost recorded. Try not to get it near there unless its turned.

That sounds rather good. You coulda done a lot worse. :)

Head stud is correct.... I feel confident in my tech here... the only thing we are doing is replacing the stud and nut... the damn thing doesnt even leak! I'll make sure the car is tuned for 1.0 Bar max... Do these motors run afr's like other turbocharged cars ie(lancer evo/wrx sti, these I am much more familiar with)?... wide open at 10.9-11.5? Keep it really rich? I appreciate the help...

Shouldn't this have had the fiberglass rear bumper with the flipped tail lights?

send it to henry..

~370 at the rollers, as compared to 300 at the crank for RoW (or 265 for US-spec 86-up), needs a modern turbo, decent intercooler, improved headers, decent cams (SC work well) and uncorking the wastegate. All of which improves the car immensely both on and off-boost, only downside is the the heat kind of sucks after. Drat.

No need to address the 34mm(!) inlet ports, pancake manifold or boost for those power levels. Approaches taken for the next 100-150 HP generally diverge quite widely...

I don't know what it is but I know what I like...

That is a super nice car!!!! I am extremely jealous!

RE: The front bumper... I'm going out on a limb here... looks a little like a 944?

We are going to update turbo with a K27-7200, turbokraft intercooler, and fabspeed heater box/headers and exhaust. I asked Kremer about the body work, the front and rear bumpers, those guys are hard to understand and getting any kind of a response is difficult as well... the model is Kremer 930, the 935's has the flipped tail lamps and fiberglass rear bumper as far as I understand. The front bumper I have never seen before, consequently neither has anyone else I have spoken to.

Pump gas and 1 bar of boost?

I have all the bolt ons with major internal work, 3.4L and SC cam. 1 bar boost, pump gas and barely got 364 at the wheels. I have heard from some that they will get upwards of 380-390 at the wheels.

I am not as interested in power numbers as I am having a nice, reliable, fun to drive car... It will be a pump gas car for sure set at 1.0 bar. I am sure it will be fast enough while keeping it relatively stock. I'd love to be able to race one, but I don't think this car is the right choice for that activity:(... maybe in the future I'll put a twin turbo motor in the convertible....:cool:

That's good. Any relatively competent tech can work on that car as long as he's not a know-it-all who's too smart to read a FSM or ask someone who really knows. I build really fantastic engines myself because I'm the opposite...I ask so many questions and get so deep into the minutia that it drives everyone around me crazy. :)

It takes a new pair of glasses to work on engines that have 35lb. torque on the head fasteners, (or whatever the hell it is).

Well here are a few questions... while reading about this engine(torque specs, etc)... the copper o rings at bottom of jugs, should they be replaced? Should the nuts on the head studs be replaced? And what is this Loctite 573 stuff(goes between rocker box and jug assy)? I spoke with a local Porsche Tech, he's probably on here somewhere, told me to use this paste stuff from VW. Other than that(so far), these engines have a rather great design, considering they make more power stock than most other v8, v10, or v12 of the time.

From memory:

New copper rings at base of jugs? Yes.

The sealant you refer to should go between cam housing and heads. You are calling the heads "Jug assembly"?

When I built my last air-cooled 911 engine, I used a special grease on the base of the cylinders that is no longer available. For the life of me, I can't remember what it was called.

Re-use head stud nuts? Yes. These do not fail on Porsche engines. Only the studs. If you're engine has the early '80s studs on it, you should seriously consider changing all of them while the engine is apart. Others will break. :cool:

State-mandated E10 and factory wastegate/stock spring and a stock coil puking dialetic causing a hard misfire (like a rev limiter) @ 6,000 RPM. Which is a shame, because the motor makes peak HP @ 6,200 with a K27/HF, I seem to recall.

VDO mech gauge reads 12.5PSI max boost; always has, no overshoot.

Don't think you can compare different dynos on different days like some would have you believe; too many conversion/compensation factors.

Little issue using dyno charts from the same dyno with the same operator to compare AFRs and power curves (and, to a lesser extent, before/after figures). Although different temps/air densities will skew the readings too.

Checking AFR's is mostly what I'm there for. Although improved figures on the same dyno are generally a sign you're doing something right :)

Better than the 3DLZ boat anchor, but still 20+ year old technology (fitted to late 930's, the 930S and the 3.3 965's, I think).

The current range of zero-clearance K27 hybrid turbos from Kevin (Ultimate Motorwerks) will probably out-perform that by a wide margin; spool faster/more predictably as well as flowing more at the top. They have a compressor map that works better for the car, so impart less heat to the charge air (physics isn't just a suggestion, so some heating from compression is unavoidable). If you're buying another turbo anyway, I'd look into that, unless you have a killer deal on a used one.

Many are tending towards ball-bearing turbo's now for faster spool, but K27 variants tend to win on the "bolt it on" compatibility front... Many folks handle the hybrid K27's, Turbocraft and Rarlyl8 both do.

Heh. I watched a 930 lump getting dropped recently, and was shocked how tiny the stock cold side was... Just didn't look right... :)

Both good choices in my book.

The very early factory slants didn't have pop-up headlights either (they used the 944 motor/buckets later, IIRC). They used a variety of solutions, from one to two square headlights, to a single large round one. Pre-M505 option availability, these were Special Wishes (Sonderwunsch) cars.

That square headlight/bumper arrangement looks like it might be adapted from the Euro 944 S layout. Don't really know what the 951, or the 944 S2 look like under the ABS airdam, but they also have lights in the bumper, it seems...

Lots of info on factory slant prototypes, special wishes and production cars in this thread http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/447083-slantnose-slant-nose-slope-m505-factory-930s-documents-registry-ultimate-flachbau.html

In particular, check out this http://forums.pelicanparts.com/4457674-post116.html photo of a factory-produced Special Wishes car in 1980 with two square headlights per side in the bumper.

Well..... We have now torn the motor all the way down... deciding to replaced all bearings and seals, piston rings(2 oil rings broken), even though the bearings all look new and cylinders still have cross/hash markings. This thing is pretty unbelieveable, forged pistons, balanced crank, everything is polished. Americans couldn't even figure out disc brakes in 1981. We still have to get the one broken stud out.. but with a little heat, the rest came out easy, so we're hoping for the same fortune on the last one. I appreciate those links on the special wishes vehicles. There is some serious history about these slant nosed vehicles. I am still hesistant to change the front bumper, even though the DP935 style is available(pretty sweet looking).
When going back together with this engine, what type of silicon-based material is used to seal the case? The paste stuff going between the jugs and camshaft housings I located, but I spoke with a local Porsche mech. who told me to buy this stuff from VW, said it handles heat/gasoline more effectively than the loctite.

Just don't touch the inside of the cylinder/jugs. You know that, right?

Loctite 574 has always been used to seal the case halves, and cam carriers to head interface, and it works well, but others have been using threebond 1194 with great results. I just used it on my last two builds, and has worked out real well. I used a small foam roller to apply it.
It is a little harder to work with, really sticky, messy, and sets up fast, but seems to provide a far superior seal than 574.
This thread will be very helpful to you and your wrench.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/284737-complete-engine-sealant-thread.html?highlight=complete+engine+sealant+thre ad
I have not had a chance to chime in here yet, but I have been following this thread, and I love your car. Never seen such unique colors on one. Keep up the good work.

You really should buy Wayne's engine rebuild book and read it before starting re-assembly. There are a lot of small things and tweaks that need to be done in order to put the engine together right. For starters, you need to clean the hell out of the case and make sure all oil passages and squirters are clear. You also need to decide what new studs you want to install - there are several options.

Good Luck!

G

The inside of the Jug.... We are going to have all the parts.. case, jugs, etc sent to a local machine shop for cleaning only. The engine looks almost new on the inside. I am not to sure what you mean by not touching them(jugs).. we were going to have the valve seals replaced...The engine will be reassembled by a local shop who's expertise is Porsche... This thing is complicated...

We are going back together with 993 TT studs. From what I have read and gathered these are the best/stock out there... They have some coating on them to stop the surface from deteriorating like the older ones..

If the the cylinders are Alusil or Nikasil, (they will be one of the two), you cannot hone them at all. It will damage the surface. Not even the dingo balls on a drill. Nothing. Although a hot tank at a machine shop, (the giant automatic dishwasher-like machine with citrus-based solution), will dull them nicely IME.

The good news is that those cylinders do not wear. I'll bet that there is zero wear on them--no ridges whatsoever, nothing. Just re-ring with Mahle rings and follow an aggressive break-in process for the rings. I had 100% success re-ringing my Alusil SC engine. Some will tell you that it cannot be done, they are speaking from 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge as opposed to experience.

And 993 studs are great! Good luck and keep us updated!

Youre right about the cylinders looking new.... the cross-hashes are still in them! Pretty unbelieveable. All we're going to do is have parts hot tanked, and then go back with reassembly and new parts! Ill get some pics up soon.

Aren't the 993 studs divilar? They have an appalling reputation for breaking; like immediately after the heads are torqued on assembly, in some cases. Do a search.

I've been very happy with Henry Schmidt's head studs; "SuperTech" - Pelican carries them. Your builder will probably be more familiar with ARP.

Either of those would be a better choice.

Do NOT put the motor together with stock rod bolts - that's the Achilles heel of the 3.2/3.3 motors. Use ARP.

The 993 TT has dilavar and the NA has steel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/644752-993-head-studs-two-types.html

I don't think it is as clean cut as you say spuggy. Steve Weiner apparently uses the 993 TT dilavar with very good success. (as you can learn in that lenghty thread posted above!)

G

The 993 TT studs are divilar.. with a coating to prevent/stop the corrosion at the base where they're exposed at the case. From the information I have read, and from others by word of mouth here locally, these studs are as good a choice as anything out there without going aftermarket.... I spoke with Steve, he seemed to confirm the others stating these studs would be a fine replacement.
I know that people have different experiences with different engines... I have a feeling that a lot of our difficulty with this particular car is the fact it's sat somewhere outside under a mitten for years.

Sure sounds like you have done your research! Steve is an institution and if he says he hasn't seen these fail, you can be sure that they are good. The thread I posted has practically all viewpoints on this subject, so I don't want to start cooking it up here. ;)

I have to say, the more I look at the pictures of your car every time I come to this thread, the more I like it. I'd love to own an 80s turbo one day. When I bought my 993 I was contemplating a 930 but decided to go with the 993 for better daily driver capability (a/c).

G

Heh. That thread didn't exist when I selected SuperTec studs 6 years/30,000 miles ago.

I respect anything Steve says, for reasons that should be obvious. On the other hand, Henry has a pretty clear (and diametrically opposed) opinion.

Not the first time I've encountered conflicting opinions from highly-respected folks who know what they're doing. Seriously doubt it'll be the last.

Bottom line; pay your money and make your choices :) I've had no reason whatsoever to regret mine - and I sincerely hope you're as happy with any you may make.

Spuggy, youre right. The decisions we make have either positive or negative consequences and once the decision has been made; we all deal with their respective outcomes. I have a feeling we will be okay from what I have read... I am actually more concerned with the piston ring issue(which to use, either Goetze or Mahle).... This project has so many facits that I have never really experienced before... Only time will tell.. I need to get some pics up, I will try to do this today!
Aigel, thanks for that.... We are hoping that this car turns out the way we want it to. It should look and drive fantastically if all goes well.... and since we have torn it all the way down, things should be looking up!

pics and parts!
 

Well, all the parts are back from machine shop, they look great, and there are probably 1000 nuts, bolts, wires, looming, caps, etc to go back into place!!

This should turn out great with fresh motor, clutch, exhaust, intercooler etc!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353025724.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353025749.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353025771.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353025791.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353025834.jpg

The engine is assembled for the most part, it's in time, but the tech that timed the engine recommended changing the chain tensioners with a hydraulic aftermarket version driven by oil pressure.

Anyone familiar with these type(hydraulic)?

Should we just purchase new oem/Porsche style tensioners? What's the advantage of the hydraulic if any?

You need to read up on chain tensioners. It is a long story.

Until the hydraulic tensioners (also called Carrera tensioners) came out on the 3.2 carrera, Porsche had issues with failures on the mechanical jobs.

Here a good post - it includes a mod I learned at Jerry Woods that you should add to the hydraulics as well!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/157121-jerry-woods-chain-tensioner-mod.html

Cheers,

G