Autotrader ad for my car.

Cars for Sale: 2008 BMW 550i Sedan w/ Sport Package in Gibsonia, PA 15044: Sedan Details - 335011331 - AutoTrader.com

I didn't spend a lot of time with the pictures because it was dirty and has the winter wheels on it. The description is difficult to read because it won't allow page breaks. If I can get anything near $30K will be elated. It really is a clean car but who knows? Within minutes of it going up I got this text and email:

Thank you for getting back to me,can you assure me that i will not be disappointed if i buy this Vehicle as a Birthday gift for my Dad? as I'm ready to pay your asking price but not cash in person because I'm an Oceanographer and i am presently on a contract which will end in couple of months,the contract is strictly no call due to the lack of reception on the sea area,but I'm able to access my mail through my laptop and my only quickest payment option is PayPal,its safe fast and secure and i will be responsible for the pay pal transaction charges so you can get your expected amount.
If you don't have an account with paypal,its pretty easy to open one,Just log on to www.paypal.com and sign up.I hope we can make the purchase as fast as possible? as my Dad's birthday is fast approaching,am sure he will love this vehicle,his a mechanic and a handy man,so if there is anything that need to be fixed in it just let me know he will handle it.
I have a mover that will come for the pick up once payment clears in your account and he will handle the title for me.I look forward to hear from you with the information below.

Your PayPal e-Mail Address :
Full name:
Firm Price:
Zip code for pickup:

Thanks

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1354108888.jpg

I got that one with my Maserati. I have to give him bonus points for the "Oceanographer" angle, that shows some creativity.:)

Yeah I was going to play around with him but BTDT. Just blocked him with my email.

Do what you want, of course. But I'll address this only because others reading this thread may feel the same way, and might as well set it straight.

It is your issue. Psychological.

When you own it (cash or loan) aren't you keeping it nice for the next owner? Have you kept a daily driver until died of old age? I'm not sure how "ownership" feels different than stewardship.

You knew you had no other choices until the end of the lease? BS. You have more options in a lease. Look, if you paid cash and "own" it, you'll sell it or trade it whenever you feel like it, right? And put as many miles on it as you feel like, right? But cash, loan, or lease your car is worth what it's worth on the day you sell or trade it, period. Paid cash? You take the cash value, that day. Have a loan? You'll have to pay off whatever you owe, that day. Have a lease? Now you have options. It can be exactly like a loan, because that's really what it is. Call the bank/leasor that day and get your payoff. Sell or trade your car for what it's worth that day, then pay the balance due. Exactly like a loan. *OR* figure out whether it's a better deal to pay the remaining payments and give the car back to the lease company as if it's the end of the lease. Read my scenario above. It might represent a much better deal to have leased and paid the remaining payments and gave it back than to have paid cash and owned it. Sometimes thousands less. Choose the lesser of costs. Your choice.

Will miles, condition, timing have something to do with the car's value? Always. Whether you paid cash, took out a loan, or leased. Again, leasing gives you more options because you have a guaranteed buyer lined up, and they told you exactly what they'd pay for it. Think you can do better? Sell it to someone else and pay the lease off (just like a loan). Let's say you're 8,000 miles over your agreed miles. Remember, YOU are the one that chose how many miles you signed up for -- could have been 10,000 miles per year, 12K, 15K....all the way up to 30K miles per year. So your lease agreement states you could have purchased miles up-front (built into the lease) at 12 cents per mile, or waited three years and paid 15 cents per mile (some luxury cars or low-mile leases can be 15-18-20, still the same point). So, you can pay a PENALTY of $0.15 x 8000 = $1200 and give it back. Or, call them and get the total payoff and go sell it/trade it yourself if the impact will be less than $1200. If you OWNED your car, you'll take the hit, whatever it cost. It might have been a lot more than $1200.

Want to dispose of your car earlier than planned? Lease gives you more options, as well as the exact same options as if you owned it (cash/loan).

Want to put on more or less miles than planned? Lease gives you more options, as well as the exact same options as if you owned it (cash/loan).

Got into a bad accident, but not enough to total the car? Lease gives you more options, as well as the exact same options as if you owned it (cash/loan).

Think of it for a moment...... Someone broadsides your 550i while it were in that parking lot and wipes out the fenders and doors. Not totalled, but 50% of the value of the car. It gets professionally repaired and you go on with life. Now it's time to sell it. Carfax shows the accident. Maybe a pro like me can tell it was painted. How much less is the car worth? $1000? $2000? And it may take you a lot longer to sell. In any case, the accident cost YOU money. If you leased it? Nope. Not a cent. You have a guaranteed buyer, and they stated in writing, up front, what they'd pay you. A professionally repaired accident wouldn't change that. You'd return it to BMW Financial at the end of the lease and move on.

What if it was totalled? Let's say you paid cash for that $64K S4 for $55K plus tax for that $58,850 total. Then exactly ten months later some asshat totals it in a parking lot. The insurance company pays you market value. Maybe after a month of fighting they pay you HIGH market value. Maybe that's $49,500 (it's a model year old with 12,500 miles). You have no choice. You just lost $9,350.

Now let's say you took out a loan at 1.9%. $58,850 for 48 months at 1.9% for $1274/mo. You've paid ten payments, $12,740. You'd still owe $46,960. Ins co pays you $49,500 and you pocket the $2540. You just lost $10,200.

Now let's say you leased it. 36 month lease per our example. $708 per month. You paid 10 months. That's $7080. When it's totalled, that's between the lease company and the insurance companies. Period. You're not on the hook. Your contractual obligation is fulfilled. Any gap is covered. You just lost $7,080.

Want to pay cash? Want to take out a loan? Want to assume all the risks? Want to "own" a quickly depreciating asset? Go for it.

I'd rather have more options, pay less tax, have a lower payment, and assume no risks that my (lower) payments won't keep pace with depreciation.





Having said all that, I have ZERO to gain with this advice. I don't offer new cars. I don't offer leases to any clients. I can't make any money if a client chooses to lease a new car.

My bread and butter are people who'd rather pay $43K for a two year old Audi S4 and take out a five year loan commitment at a $850 payment (incl tax) than get a brand new 2013 S4 for a three year lease commitment at a $708 payment (incl tax). Funny how there are enough of those people to make a living....

On second thought, leasing is BAD. You should all just buy two or three year old cars!!

Such a lovely car!

So if you'd be happy getting "anything near $30K", why are you asking $32,000??

My advice, price it at $29,999 and hold firm

You're missing a lot of buyers at $32K. They're not even seeing your ad.

Thanks for the selling advice. I just lowered it to 29,999. Watching too much "Pawn Stars" lately.

Eric. Just in case you though I was totally bull headed, I do have a call out to this dealership and getting some lease rates.

New 2013 Audi S4 AUTO For Sale in Monroeville PA | VIN: WAUKGAFL2DA089370

Thanks again for your help.

Eric, your posts are great....at least in O.T.:cool:

Funny how things have changed. Where it used to be responsible to save up and pay cash for something but now it's about borrowing and financing.

Can't hurt

Just remember that everything is negotiable. When you buy a car, you're negotiating only one variable (the price). When financing or leasing, you're adding variables. They can mark up the rate and tweak other variables (term, miles, Audi Care, acquisition fee, termination fee, etc) to make money. Just be really careful. Share the variables here and I can double check them.

My advice. Don't put any money down on the lease (no cash cap reduction). Then be disciplined enough to do something productive with your liquidity.

You should be able to buy or lease that particular S4 for $56,250 +/-
The lease money factor for 36 months should be .00105 (2.52%)
The 36 month residual on a Prestige is 52% if 15,000 miles per year, so $59,920 x .52 = $31,158. 12,000 miles per year adds 2%, so 54% ($32,357)
Audi Care adds 1% to the residual, but typically costs about $700

Shop around, good luck



OR (just doing my job).....

There's a 2012 S4 Prestige near Philly
9,800 miles
Monsoon Gray / Black leather
$44,000 can buy today

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1354125056.jpg

Just got a quote back for the lease. Sounds like he was ballparking it but came up with $1000/mo 3 year.

My numbers are accurate. I'm quite sure a salesperson cannot run accurate lease numbers for you without asking a manager....he/she doesn't have access. Even then, why not run it at MSRP, marking up the rate, adding Audi Care at full price, and adding a couple hundred to the acquisition fee. You've invested no time, why should they? Like it or not, it'll take some work to get it all hammered out.

Good luck

^^^^Monsoon grey S4 out of Philly.... kind of looks and sounds like a dripping wet flood special -

Used to be showing up "cash in hand" scored you a better deal. Today you'll pay more. They make significantly more money if you finance vs paying cash. I financed $10k of my F150 for the minimum 3 months to get a $1500 rebate. My first payment to Ford was $9900.:cool:

True, but flippantly throwing out a figure like that doesn't exactly make you want to deal with them. I'm off to see where the other car leads me.

True, but it's kinda like advertising a car for $32,000 when you'd take $29,000. No offense there, it's what the majority of sellers have done for decades.

So old-school dealers know that if you don't ask for it, you never get it. Might as well ask you to pay full retail, you might just say yes. A large number of people do, esp on a lease.

The alternative is to take out a loan. Audi Financial Services current special is 60 months at 1.9%. So that $59,920 Audi plus 7% sales tax is $64,114 (plus whatever fees, both dealer and DMV). So let's just $64,000 is your loan amount at 1.9% for 60 months works out to $1,120 a month.

So quoting a three year lease at $1,000 a month saves $120 on payment, for a shorter term commitment, under warranty the whole time. You can see why people go for it. Even at full sticker plus mark-ups in finance.

That's not how I roll. The industry is changing. People use the internet to shop. So quoting someone full sticker hoping they'll come back and negotiate is a flawed business model. They never come back. They may never even come to you in the first place.

BTW, here's Audi's nationally advertised S4 lease this month:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1354137750.jpg

Zero down would be $617 per month ($2799/36=$78+$539=$617)

This is BEFORE any negotiation. This is just Audi's national campaign. You'd tweak it to suit your needs.

Just got back from my 2 hour test ride of the S4. He let me take it home and I did some errands with my daughter.

Pros: Drives fine. Better handling then the 550i. I know the S4 is still a heavy car but if felt nimble. The engine doesn't have the torque of the BMW V8 but pulls fine even so. My 550 feel like an 80's muscle car that is a red light dragster in comparison. Paddle shifters worked nicely. I would probably use them for a week and forget they are there.

Interior is tight. Up front fine, but rear seats are trying for anyone approaching adult size. The fit, finish and feel of the interior is lacking in comparison to BMW. Feels flimsy and I guess VWish.

Confusing array of options. Half of my time with car was trying for figure what is does and doesn't have. I got the option codes from an Audi dealer and its 4 pages long and used audispeak. Some I could discern. Prestige package, check. Adaptive headlight, no. Heated rear seats, steering wheel and headlight washer, no. (Needed here!) B and O stereo, check. sounds great. Suspension choices, no. Adjustable lumbar support, no heads up, no I was hoping that when you order "The Prestige" package that is all taken car of, but its not. You order a 550i and there are only a handful of options (which mine came with)

Again comparing BMW and Audi is always going to have some uncommon comparisons. One of the biggest issues is you get the law of the needed options. Once you have a car that has some you like, its tough not to go back to them. Yes I know its rough just like when my champagne gets warm!

Families thought, BMW

The car is in 9.5/10 condition. Interior looks absolutely new. New tires (Cooper but they were highly rated.)

The dealer was very ancy to get this done, it being 11/28 may have something to do.

I could take it or walk away I guess. I may end up throwing out my lowest offer and see what gives.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1354147866.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1354147889.jpg


As far as the white color. Not sure. No one in my family is convinced that I would even consider one because is not me. Don't want to walk out one day and look at my purchase and think "what was I thinking?"

After reading through your post I was really surprised to see you mention that you'd consider making an offer. To me it sounds like you really didn't like it.

Interesting comment on the interior, I typically find that as an Audi strength. Having driven an E60 550i I'd rate my S8 interior as significantly better.

Comparing and S8 and S4 might be some of the issue. How old is yours? Even the newer BMW's seem to be going that way. The e60 BMW's felt like they were made of more substantial material. Perhaps that is why they weighed 500lbs more then the next car.;) The S4 is much more a drivers car which is what I am aiming for. I just have to get some of the old man out of me. You know I was looking at Caddy CTS-V! I just did some more research since I don't know much about Audi's and apparently there is some well needed options if you really want to get the most out of an S4. From automobile mag:

If you're keen to get the best S4 drive experience possible, the $1,100 optional sport differential with Audi Drive Select is a must-have addition to the $48,000 Premium Plus trim car you see here. If you have no intention of going for this option, there's really no spectacularly convincing reason to buy the S4 unless you're addicted to having at least six cylinders under the hood.

Reading this and then seeing the car doesn't come with it leads to more questions. I know you have to draw the line somewhere, but if you ordered this car, wouldn't you get it? Today was my day off. I need to go back to work and do something productive.:(

Eric thanks for taking the time to explain the virtues of leasing VS buying,
your a very intelligent person.
89911 goodluck on buying your next new car.

In hindsight the S8 might not be a fair comparison, it had an MSRP of over $75k in 2002. Similarly, comparing the S4 to your 550i might also be comparing different classes of cars. I've always felt that apples to apples, Audi has a nicer interior.

As for the diff, I've never driven one so it's hard to say. My one comment is that if you're spending over $40k for a car, it had better be what you want. From your posts I can't see how you really like it much more than your 550i.