Pushrods, leaf springs, cheap interior....and the fastest lap record at Laguna Seca

[kaisen]

Pushrod 2 valve motor, leaf sprung suspension, balsawood floor, plastic body, plastic interior, eight year old platform.....

Yet more than 3 seconds faster around Laguna Seca than a (much more expensive) new 911 GT3 RS with the same sticky tires





2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 vs. 2013 SRT Viper GTS - Motor Trend

My first big story at Motor Trend pitted the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 against a Porsche 911 Turbo. Much to most peoples’ surprise, the Porsche was faster in a straight line, yet the mighty American absolutely wiped the track with that German missile. We stuck Justin Bell behind the wheel of both, and he made the Corvette go 3.6 seconds per lap faster around Big Willow than the Porsche Turbo. A year later, during the 2011 Best Driver’s Car competition at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, a Corvette Z06 with sticky, semi-slick Cup tires ran away from the rest of the field, posting a freaky fast 1:34.40 lap time with Randy Pobst behind the wheel. Not only was that time almost 2 seconds per lap faster than the second-fastest car (the Ferrari 458 Italia, 1:36.20) but the 505-hp Z06 had less power than the second- through fifth-place cars (458, Audi R8 GT, Lexus LFA, Nissan GT-R). Today, for the first time ever, we get our hands on the 638-horsepower, 604-lb-ft ZR1 with those same sticky, 80 treadwear Michelin Pilot Sport Cup ZP tires.......

...Let’s talk Randy Pobst, who set the new Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca lap record in the Corvette ZR1 with a time of 1:33.70. The old record of 1:33.99, set by Chris Winkler in a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR, stood for more than three years. I asked Randy for his thoughts on setting the new record. “First, thanks to Motor Trend for the opportunity. Second, this lap record is reality. I’m proud of that. Just five laps, flat-out, in a ZR1 straight from the showroom. No three days of setup, testing and practice. Third, the thrill of taking 638 horsepower foot-to-the-floor around Mazda Laguna and coming back in one piece and on top. Especially the no-lift jump over turn 1. As brave as I’ve ever been. Fourth, satisfaction. Yeah, we got this.“ As for the new Viper, Randy ripped off an even braver (says me) lap of 1:35.77. To put that in perspective, the SRT would be the sixth-fastest car we’ve ever lapped at Laguna Seca, behind the aforementioned Aventador (1:34.50) and Randy’s own effort in the old Viper ACR (1:35.10). That said, the 2013 Viper is faster around Laguna Seca than the Ferrari 458 Italia, Lexus LFA, Audi R8 GT, Porsche GT3 RS, and Nissan GT-R. As Randy shouted when he learned this fact, “God bless America!”

...the old, about-to-be-discontinued ZR1 performs 2.1 seconds per lap better (than the new Viper). On Randy’s fastest ZR1 lap, his top speed was 140.4 mph over turn 1. Wicked fast! For comparison, in the Viper, Randy’s top speed at the same point was 138.4 mph, a seemingly small but significant difference. Interestingly, like me, Randy thought that the Viper felt quicker than the ZR1 in a straight line. Carlos chalks that up to the near complete lack of sound deadening in the cabin. The noise is brutal. Regardless, we know the cars are just as quick as each other. It was the SRT’s inferior shocks and brakes that prevented Randy from going totally flat in the Viper. Years ago, a Ferrari engineer was explaining to Randy, Angus and I that they (Ferrari) simply couldn’t figure out how the Nissan GT-R is able to lap the Nurburgring Nordschleife so quickly. “Oh, I know why,” Randy piped up. “Confidence. You can drive it faster because you’re more confident.” This seems to be exactly the case here with these two muscle-bound freaks. While eerily similar in almost every respect, on the track the ZR1 is the clear winner. Of course, we’ve known how good big-dog Corvettes are as track monsters for some time. Remember, the second-fastest car Randy’s ever flung around Laguna Seca is a 2012 Corvette Z06.

[pwd72s]

Definitely quick. Shows ya what I know about 'Vettes. Didn't know they were leaf springs.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Definitely quick. Shows ya what I know about 'Vettes. Didn't know they were leaf springs.

Just like the front of a 1973 Opel GT.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Transverse rear leaf, and I think it's had one forever.

Very impressive, though also a reminder of just how bad the writing in Motor Trend sucks. Let's talk turkey!

As far as bang for the buck, you really can't beat the domestics right now. Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, all offer a huge amount of performance for not much money. Based on my experience in a C6 Z06 I'm not sure I'd want one (silly fast but feels huge), but you have to respect the package.

[willtel]

Imagine the times if it had drum brakes.

[sammyg2]

I watched Ricardo Zonta do a lap there of 1:06 and change in a toyota and he was only running about 8/10ths on demonstration laps.
Had the suspension set all the way soft 'cause the track was way bumpidyer than they are used to in F1.
Of course he had a carbon fibre floor, that's cheating

I was working for toyota at the races and had dinner at the same table as Zonta, he said if the car was set up for the track he could have gone sub-one minute.
That's flyin.

[doug_porsche]

and carburetors.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by willtel

Imagine the times if it had drum brakes.

Nominee - best post of 2012

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by willtel

Imagine the times if it had drum brakes.

It may have been as slow as a new 2013 Porsche 991 S if it had rear drums!

[cairns]

Imagine the times if it had drum brakes.

ROTFL

[kaisen]

[sammyg2]

UPDATE: Toyota F1's Ricardo Zonta sets Laguna Seca record
By Stuart Waterman RSS feed
Posted Aug 21st 2006 9:05AM

After nipping the old Champ Car track record on Friday, Toyota F1's Ricardo Zonta well and truly demolished it Saturday and Sunday, finishing the weekend with a best time of 1:06.309 Sunday morning.

Zonta's time is an impressive 1.413 seconds faster than Helio Castroneves' 2000 record. With his lap times falling in every on-track session, Zonta and his TF106 certainly entertained the crowd, adding some front straight donuts as the finishing touch.

Zonta has posted short articles over on SpeedTV.com all weekend, and his recounting of a Formula 1 lap of Laguna Seca will make interesting reading for anyone who has ever had the pleasure of lapping the course.

Source: SpeedTV, MontereyHistoric.com]

Toyota F1 at Laguna Seca - YouTube

[kaisen]

Isn't it amazing that a full-on multi-million dollar Formula One race car is significantly faster around a race track?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Isn't it amazing that a full-on multi-million dollar Formula One race car is significantly faster around a race track?

Not really, anyone with a clue would expect that.
What is amazing is that a publication like motor trend would say

...Let’s talk Randy Pobst, who set the new Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca lap record in the Corvette ZR1 with a time of 1:33.70. The old record of 1:33.99, set by Chris Winkler in a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR, stood for more than three years.

"Oh, we meant the track record FOR A PRODUCTION CAR but we forgot to include that tiny piece of information".

It is appears that either the author meant to deceive the readers for sensationalism, or he doesn't have a clue.

[kaisen]

I'd bet that the 85th percentile of MT readers would assume they were referring to production cars

And they did mention it several times in the video

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I'd bet that the 85th percentile of MT readers would assume they were referring to production cars

And they did mention it several times in the video

Didn't watch the video, I was going off the article that was quoted.
And your right, most would realize the author's omission.

But I can imagine a bunch of noobs standing around a tool box somewhere arguing that a corvette is faster than an F1 car 'cause motor trend said so.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Motor Trend is a joke, they've never met a car they didn't like. At least not one from a manufacturer that advertises in their magazine.

BTW, bumping this thread reminds me that I still like the looks of the C6 ZR1 better than the C7. Though neither look their best in red.

[Sarc]

The only question I have is "Ford, where are you?". Would be nice to see some response to the escalating Viper/Vette conflict....and I don't think another Super Duper Shelby Mustang is the ticket (as capable as it is).
Something along the lines of a new GT40 (even a GR1 or Messenger reinterpretation) could be fun.

[kaisen]

I think Ford would do well to compete with high-spec Corvettes and the Viper.

Something right around $120K that has either a front/mid (ala Vette/Viper) or rear/mid mounted GT500 motor variant.

There's no reason Ford can't do it.

[Sarc]

I always wanted to see where the Mercury Messenger concept could have gone in production form; reworking that idea into a rear/mid platform would be a fun experiment.
An American Miura of sorts...