Please Comment...

M.D. Holloway · 12-20-2012, 05:50 PM

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/08/porsches-deadly-sin-1-1999-porsche-911-996-3-4/

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

It all sounds familiar. I'm not a fan of the 996 lineup, with the exception of the GT2 and GT3, and those engines are built on the 964 engine platform.

Christien · Christien's Garage

A little harsh - I don't think the interiors are THAT bad, especially compared to a GM product of that era (or even today). Cracked leather? I'd say the 996 are some of the most durable seats I've seen in Porsches. The supple leather option was (is) beautiful and comfortable. RMS leak universal? Hardly. Far too common, yes, but hardly universal.

The interesting thing the author seemed to overlook is the 3.4 engine itself. I can't for the life of me figure out why Porsche dropped the displacement for the base-model 911. Every 3.4 996 I've ever driven feels miserably underpowered, especially the cabrios. I drove a 99 3.4 cabrio and an 01 boxster S back to back on twisty country roads and the boxster was the better of the two in every respect.

And while the value difference between a 98 and a 99 is indeed shocking, that has as much to do with supply and demand as it does build quality.

I'm also not a fan of the 996 lineup, but let's be realistic about it. To be honest, with the prices of C4s where they are now, I'm considering picking one up as a winter beater. It may have fugly headlights and a rather uninspired interior design, with cheap switches and cup holders that break too easily, but it's still a pretty damn good winter beater.

Nostril Cheese · 12-20-2012, 06:15 PM

true dat.. The M96 engine is garbage.

M.D. Holloway · 12-20-2012, 06:18 PM

how does it compare to the 2001-04?

Nostril Cheese · 12-20-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

how does it compare to the 2001-04?

What, the engine? it's the same flawed architecture.

pwd72s · 12-20-2012, 11:29 PM

Ya pays yer money & makes yer choices....

GeorgeK · 12-21-2012, 02:03 AM

10 years of porsche production are down the drain value-wise. I can not see how *any* non-964 block engined 996 can be worth anything long term. Add to that the weird styling and you have a huge loser. There's a reason one can buy a 996/986 for under 8Gs now.

M.D. Holloway · 12-21-2012, 04:42 AM

Hmmm I thought I saw a thread the other day talking about how great the 02-04 996s were?

onewhippedpuppy · 04:50 AM

Wow. I'm glad that the internet has lowered the journalistic bar such that totally biased crap like this article can be published as fact. Can't wait to see the air cooled fanboys jump on this one.....

I'd be curious how many 986/996 cars the author has owned. My guess is zero. Let's look at a few of his criticisms......

Frameless doors - since when is this a negative attribute? Many modern cars have frameless doors. My '88 911 Targa has frameless doors, so he needs to move his insults back a few generations of 911.

Horrifying interior trim quality - I've owned 5 986/996 cars. Not one has rattled, not one has shown significant wear inside. The interior, while not feeling luxurious in the pre-2002 models, actually holds up very well.

Failure prone engines - GTFO. If the guy had any legitimacy, he blew it with that statement. RMS issues is a freaking oil leak people, big deal. Of my 5 only one had a small seep, slight enough that it never dripped. "Universal" my ass. IMS issue is real but also rare. If it keeps you up, replace the bearing with an improved one for $600-ish (which he fails to mention). There were porous block and "D-chunk" issues with early Boxsters that were quickly remedied, and I doubt there's many out there today in the used market. BTW he doesn't appear to like the air cooled cars either, as I'm not aware of a glut of "previous failures in air cooled cars".

Fragile interior - I've replaced two headlight switches in my cars ranging from 50-80k. Also had one ignition switch replaced just prior to my purchase. That's it, and those are the two most common failures. His statement about intermittent and untraceable electrical failure is flat out wrong, I've never seen any such comment to that effect regarding these cars. Why would you need to replace a Litronic assembly, short of accident damage? Just like any headlights you replace the bulbs. Cracked leather is also flat out wrong, it wears like any Porsche which is pretty darn well.

Much like a Jeremy Clarkson Porsche interview, this entire thing is dripping with bias and lacking any real factual support for his claims. To me this reeks of someone that just doesn't like Porsche, or has an axe to grind. I didn't frequent this website, but this guarantees that I won't in the future.

onewhippedpuppy · 12-21-2012, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

10 years of porsche production are down the drain value-wise. I can not see how *any* non-964 block engined 996 can be worth anything long term. Add to that the weird styling and you have a huge loser. There's a reason one can buy a 996/986 for under 8Gs now.

Find me a nice running 996 for $8k and I'll buy it all day long.

GeorgeK · 12-21-2012, 04:56 AM

Matt,
986 for sub 8K exist.
996, not yet, but around here you find them for 15K on their 2nd engine.
Hence my phrasing.
Problem is, even if the engine failures are rare, they are overwhelming when compared to the air-cooled engines, and it seems to the 2009+ engines.

Someone buying a 996 will be in for a shock if the engine lets go and the cost of replacement is not economically viable.

Yes I have driven 996s. they are vastly superior to my 911, but lack the feel, the looks, the do-it yourself maintenance. They are not "the 911" we know and love.
As paul said, you pay your money and make your choices...

M.D. Holloway · 12-21-2012, 05:15 AM

Or maybe the guy loves it but wants to drive desire down so he can get one or more on the cheap?

If he is a writer he doesn't make any kinda money and may have to resort to such tactics?

onewhippedpuppy · 12-21-2012, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeK

Matt,
986 for sub 8K exist.
996, not yet, but around here you find them for 15K on their 2nd engine.
Hence my phrasing.
Problem is, even if the engine failures are rare, they are overwhelming when compared to the air-cooled engines, and it seems to the 2009+ engines.

Someone buying a 996 will be in for a shock if the engine lets go and the cost of replacement is not economically viable.

Yes I have driven 996s. they are vastly superior to my 911, but lack the feel, the looks, the do-it yourself maintenance. They are not "the 911" we know and love.
As paul said, you pay your money and make your choices...

Big difference between 986 and 996.

Quantify "overwhelming" please. Because I'm pretty certain that very few air-cooled 911s make it past 100k without AT LEAST a head refresh, if not a total rebuild. And lets not get into oil leaks, exploding air boxes, chain tensioners, distributor belts, pulled/snapped head studs, air injection ports, yada yada yada. There's a LOT of M96 equipped 986/996 out there with over 100k on their original engine. Of my 5 986/996 I've never paid a mechanic to do a single thing, they are just as easy to DIY as the early cars and without the ass pain of adjusting valves. Oh yeah, and the A/C actually works.

ANY Porsche, hell any used car, has some potentially expensive fatal flaw. But it is sheer ignorance that glosses over the air-cooled cars well documented failure points only to bash on the newer ones.

M.D. Holloway · 12-21-2012, 05:37 AM

"The passion runs deep in this young track stalker "

You got me sold! I'm sourcing out a 02-04 996 twin turbo AWD next year and driving into my tomorrow

onewhippedpuppy · 12-21-2012, 05:43 AM

I'm just one opinion, but having owned four 996s (1999 x2, 2001, 2002) and one 986 (1999) I'm not totally talking out of my ass. You'll find most that bash these cars have never driven or owned one.

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Never owned one or spend serious time in one. The best thing I've heard about them is that the heating and cooling systems are integrated and functional, not tacked on and disfunctional as in previous 911s. That would be a big plus for me.

BReif61 · 12-21-2012, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

"The passion runs deep in this young track stalker "

You got me sold! I'm sourcing out a 02-04 996 twin turbo AWD next year and driving into my tomorrow

You might already know this, but the Turbo's don't share the M96 engine architecture, so you only have to deal with the "cheap" Boxster interior

GeorgeK · 12-21-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Big difference between 986 and 996.

Quantify "overwhelming" please. Because I'm pretty certain that very few air-cooled 911s make it past 100k without AT LEAST a head refresh, if not a total rebuild. And lets not get into oil leaks, exploding air boxes, chain tensioners, distributor belts, pulled/snapped head studs, air injection ports, yada yada yada. There's a LOT of M96 equipped 986/996 out there with over 100k on their original engine. Of my 5 986/996 I've never paid a mechanic to do a single thing, they are just as easy to DIY as the early cars and without the ass pain of adjusting valves. Oh yeah, and the A/C actually works.

ANY Porsche, hell any used car, has some potentially expensive fatal flaw. But it is sheer ignorance that glosses over the air-cooled cars well documented failure points only to bash on the newer ones.

Keep in mind that all the shortcomings of the air-cooled engines are repairable, even by the more able home mechanic, do not cause terminal failure, and do not need a new engine. Here, it is "very Well Sir, that will be 30K, please" when you lunch your water engine. On a car that you just bought for 15-20K, it does not make sense. And there is *zero* independents who tackle these engines. Heck, even the gearboxes were not openable in the beginning...

But it is a matter of opinion and nothing else. I still think they are built on the cheap, are rather ugly, even though they are "better" cars, in the sense that they drive, brake, turn, heat and cool better. But on the long run? forget it.

Rapewta · 12-21-2012, 07:15 AM

The M96 has a 5% engine failure.
If you purchased a 996 and had a RMS/IMS breakdown and out of warrenty, then shame on Porsche.
The other 95% of owners drive a wonderful ride.

The depreciation was caused by the 5% being bad cars.
If you are like me and have always wanted a rear engine flat-six Carrera for less than 20G's, you can drive a high-end world class sports car.

I have had to replace components that I thought went out earlier than expected.
Motor mounts, water pump, oil filler tube, ignition switch, center console tray hinge, window regulator and other small inexpensive things.

I have no complaints.
The 996 will never be a collectable. It is not a garage queen. It will continue depreciating and for that, I say just drive it as hard as you safely can. Enjoy your 20 thousand dollar sports car. Do the routine maintenance and if it blows up, big deal.