Question for dog people

On October 11, we had to put down the original mad Corgi, Doc Thomas. Suffice it to say I was beyond devastated. He was only 12, but had degenerative myelopathy, which is common to certain breeds, and is a nerve disease that disables nerves at the hind end and moves forward until it kills the dog. We put Doc down when he started losing bladder control. Not for our own convenience, but because he got so terribly upset and embarrassed when he would have an accident. He was too noble to let wither away or suffer.

Doc had an evil little sister, Molly, who is 10 and is still with us. She is nuts; smart as hell, but completely unaffectionate--with anyone, basically. When Doc was still alive, though she was half what his size was, she was the total alpha *****. She would attack Doc out of the clear blue, for no reason. He would try to deflect her, but if she landed a bite, he would lose his temper and, had we not intervened, killed her. Over the course of 10 years, we spent thousands on emergency vet bills. Since Doc has gone (we showed her his dead body, as the vet suggested) she has slowed way down. Nothing to dominate or attack.

I'm not into prolonged mourning--I want another puppy come Spring. A male Corgi. My question is this: will introducing a puppy into Molly's domain cause her to hurt him or, equally bad, teach him all her many weird habits?

Anyone make it this far and care to comment?

Thanks

Terry

[genrex]

A talk with the vet about behavioral meds might help, but considering the circumstances, I think Rika's advice in post 13 (below) might be best.

_

[DARISC]

I'm an animal (as we all are) and an animal lover. I would, if you haven't already, establish myself as the alpha male so your female knows her place.

I'd then introduce the new pup while being present as the alpha male, firmly putting your female in her place if she exhibits agressive behavior towards the new pup (or you!).

Maintain a loving, but undisputably alpha male, presence until your female accepts her subservient role and doesn't exhibit any agressive behavior towards the pup.

As corny as it sounds, love is the key; the pup will accept it unthinkingly, the older female will also, eventually...have loving patience. It'll pay off with a loving relationship between your dogs and between them and your family.

I'm a firm denier of the old saw, You can't teach an old dog new tricks; you can. All it takes is time, patience and love. Good luck, Terry!

[Buckterrier]

Great post Darsic. I agree completely.
Now that isn't as easy as it's said. My Maxx has aggression issues in his surroundings, in fact this morning I'm taking him to the vets to fit a muzzle it's needed for when others are around. Anyway I took Maxx to a "dog whisperer". A huge waste of around $2500.00. Then I took Maxx to Tufts University, yes Tufts, (did I tell you I love Maxx?), to see Dr. Nicholas Dodman. Maxx was great there. We sat down and after greetings I said, "I know I have to be a better alpha male". He looked at me and said, "Cesar Millan is the worst thing to happen for dog owners". Seriously I nearly welled up thinking it was all my fault. He continued to explain that not all people are or can be alpha with dogs. Some dogs are going to be problem dogs regardless. He gave me things to do which to some extent have worked. He also didn't say he can 'fix' Maxx.
Don't get me wrong, Maxx is awesome and I can trust my house, belongings, anything with him. But he needs to be rained in when people are over, it is what it is.
You can still try to help the female with the puppy and they say a puppy can make an older dog feel younger. Good luck and let us know your decision.

[Chocaholic]

A subtle contradiction to Darisc''s post. I've heard it said that dogs don't "love", rather, they "respect". A theory which reinforces his suggestion about confirming your place in the pack.

With three dogs totaling 310+ lbs, we've found that to be sound advice, but it takes time and most important, consistency. Not easy to do.

If emotion takes over and a puppy finds your stoop before the work is done, yes, medication may be worth consideration.

[flatbutt]

Yup to Darisc and Choc. You seem to know Corgis well so you should be able to find the balance on a "loving respect". FWIW I wouldn't leave the pup alone with her for awhile , but now that I wrote that I figure you probably know it.

[KFC911]

+1 to what Darisc said. I've got a friend with an alpha b***h pit (long story behind her) that will "go off" on other dogs (her pups and grand pups). The owners have had dogs all their lives, but never established pack order with her. I have, and I'm the only one...it can be done in your case Terry but will require some effort and "dog smarts"...I'm sure you can pull it off...good luck!

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

... FWIW I wouldn't leave the pup alone with her for awhile , but now that I wrote that I figure you probably know it.

This too...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

...--I want another puppy come Spring. A male Corgi. My question is this: will introducing a puppy into Molly's domain cause her to hurt him or, equally bad, teach him all her many weird habits?

One other thing to add...with the pack I referenced earlier, all of the conflicts are between the b***hes. Your adding a male pup to the pack will male it easier imo...

[vash]

Rip doc!!

[Dana Norris]

Terry: I know of what you are asking about I have two Cardigan Corgis, Corgis are a
matriarchal breed ( female rules the roost ) my female also Molly will try to take our male Moe
down when ever there is another female dog of any breed near by. My Molly is 8 years old
when she was nearly 1 we took her with us when we went to a breeder to look at a male
Corgi pup and we let Molly pick out the pup. If I were in your position I would talk with a breeder that has been dealing with Corgis for a long time, and ask for advice. Corgis are great
dogs but are not for everyone they have some very distinct traites, they are a very old breed.
I really love them but than I prefer herding breeds.

[Cajundaddy]

I agree with Darisc. Dogs are a lot like kids and training always takes place... Either you train them or they train you. They need to be able to trust you completely and understand that you are absolutely in charge as the alpha male. It requires a lot of time, patience, and re-examining how we interact with dogs from their perspective.

[Rikao4]

great advice..
D & Choc are on the $$...
you need to run the show..
and after 10 yrs..
she knows ..she does
so...
unless you can spend serious time once the pup shows..
I would wait..
cause she's gonna kill it...


Rika

[Jeff Higgins]

Wow, sorry to hear about Doc, Terry. I think we all know how you feel; it's never easy losing one of our little buds. We just had to have an emergency hysterectomy performed on our eight year old Golden Retriever. We really thought we had lost her, so your loss rings especially poignant with me right now.

Darisc gives great advice. It's all about your relationship to the dogs in their world, not yours. To them, you are simply a part of the pack. You need to be the alpha male, and show the little bytch just who is in charge. Essentially, "you mess with the little feller, you're messing with me". I never really realized how important it is to understand that's your role in their world. I've had dogs all of my life, and that light only came on about 15 years (or one dog) ago.

Long story short, my then five year old oldest son and I took our dog (our current dog's late uncle) to a professional trainer of hunting dogs. I provided him with endless amusement, doing absolutely everything wrong. He finally told me that the dog could wait - he had to train me first. Train me to think like a dog, not how I thought they think. It was an eye opener, and results came quickly.

So, yeah - essentially what Darisc said. Be the alpha dog. Think like a dog, act like a dog. It's actually kind of fun. My wife tells me it came rather naturally for me...

[Don Ro]

Sorry to hear about your pup - very painful experience, I know.
.
Think about the dogs.
How about just not getting another pup until Molly passes on?

[VINMAN]

So sorry about Doc, Terry. My condolences.

We are having the Alpha issue with my Heeler Bodhi. He is fine with our Boxer and other dogs, but has a hardon for his brother. It's at the point where we have to kept them separated or have them muzzled when they are together. They will be playing together for hours with no problem, them all of a sudden, Bodhi will go after him. Sydney has a good 15 pounds and about 2 inches over Bodhi, but is still leery of him.

[DARISC]

Quoting myself: "I would, if you haven't already, establish myself as the alpha male so your female knows her place."

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

...that isn't as easy as it's said...

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

...Not easy to do...

Absolutely! I should have emphasised that that is the most difficult task in the process - and the key to success.

I do 'love' dogs, but yes, it is actually by instilling 'respect', rather than 'love' that we establish that we are the alpha pack leader, not any of the others in the pack.

And yes, it's absolutely critical that the pup not be left alone with the adult until it's absolutely clear that a healthy and safe bond has developed between them.

Terry strikes me as being an alpha male by nature; I suspect he'll succeed.

Rip doc!!

Thanks, vash. It's been two months and I still tear up every now and then.

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Sorry to hear about your pup - very painful experience, I know.
.
Think about the dogs.
How about just not getting another pup until Molly passes on?

Thanks, Don. That's the kind and logical thing to do. As many here know, I'm not always ruled by kindness or logic. But that's probably will happen.

Terry

Originally Posted by Dana Norris

Terry: I know of what you are asking about I have two Cardigan Corgis, Corgis are a
matriarchal breed ( female rules the roost ) my female also Molly will try to take our male Moe
down when ever there is another female dog of any breed near by. My Molly is 8 years old
when she was nearly 1 we took her with us when we went to a breeder to look at a male
Corgi pup and we let Molly pick out the pup. If I were in your position I would talk with a breeder that has been dealing with Corgis for a long time, and ask for advice. Corgis are great
dogs but are not for everyone they have some very distinct traites, they are a very old breed.
I really love them but than I prefer herding breeds.

Bingo, Dana. Lots of times people would see us walking the two of them and say "Oooh! Corgis! we LOVE Corgis. We're thinking of getting one! My wife and I would always say, "Uh, do a lot of research first. They're not for everyone."

One of the thing that fascinates me about Corgis is the antiquity of the breed that you point out. Living with Doc was like looking back in time 1000 years.

Best,

Terry