Why does a Porsche always end up being a horrible investment?

[chocolatelab]

Originally Posted by Panerai

Ha.... good stuff there

ive heard that many times but its truly just a generalization, pics are required to confirm this old wives tale.

A nice set of tires can go a long way.

[Rot 911]

Everything is relative. I bought my '86 Carrera back in 2001 from a Pelican member. In the last 12 years I have rebuilt the engine, suspension, brakes, etc. If I add everything up I probably have $25K in the car. Might be able to sell it for $16K today. So I would be out $9K. So for around $750 a year I get to drive a 911. Not a bad deal to me.

[creaturecat]

these things were made to drive, not to put in the bank.

[ymmv]

Originally Posted by tonypeoni

Before you get your sticks out.. Ive owned my Porsche for 14 years, Ive spend a small fortune on it and it still needs more. It hit me hard today when a friend turned a profit on a Corvette. Im underwater on my 9## and I know it. I don't feel so bad because I suspect that a lot of Porsche owners get nailed this way. Understand that I DIDN'T buy the car to make money. I simply wanted to drive it, enjoy it, spend too much money on it and maybe a little increase in value over 14 years. What has happened is I never drove it, I don't enjoy it, I spent way TOO much money. And of-course its gone nowhere in value.

Nothing too pragmatic about your comments here. Cars are depreciating assets, not investments. A car is "consumption," not a capital investment. There have been effectively zero investment grade Porsches. The arguable exceptions are the likes of the '73 RS or '89 Speedster or some rare examples of the 993, if undriven or with extraordinary provenance.

There's never been a Porsche outside a unique race car with special wins at Le Mans etc., that has done better than a checking account. Even great Porsches today (993 Turbo, Carrera GT) are under water compared to a checking account. Let's not go into the purchasing power of the dollar or price relative to an actual investment like gold, but compared to any number of Ferraris, there is no such thing as an "investment grade" Porsche. How I wish I'd had the irrational flight of fancy to buy an F40 circa 2000 when I saw a near perfect example and they were unloved cars changing hands under $200K.

As ever, once you drive a car and pick up miles, there's no return on investment.

Relative to other cars, I find the total cost of ownership is very good in 911's, quite poor in the Cayenne and pretty ordinary in Boxster and Panamera. All Porsches are like gold bullion compared to Range Rovers. : )

I've had a 964 that I sold for a profit and close to break-even if I include every cost down to insurance and fuel. I sold a 997 GT3 for a profit. A 996 GT3 for maybe $5000 less than I paid for it after two years. I sold an '09 C4S after two years and 10K miles for about $10K less than I paid. And the 997 RS 3.8 in trailer right now is still valued close to its purchase price after three years. These 911's were not expensive motoring.

In context, anyone who bought a house between 1995 and 2005 is probably not too happy to be a decade or two down the track and find themselves at about break-even on purchase price, not including taxes and expenses.

Conversely, if carefully managed as a deductible business expense, rented out to qualified pilots, a plane can even operate at a profit! And those things stay in the air for decades and remain valuable. What a racket! : )

Now, let's talk about the bain of my existence, boats ...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

Everything is relative. I bought my '86 Carrera back in 2001 from a Pelican member. In the last 12 years I have rebuilt the engine, suspension, brakes, etc. If I add everything up I probably have $25K in the car. Might be able to sell it for $16K today. So I would be out $9K. So for around $750 a year I get to drive a 911. Not a bad deal to me.

I don't know your car Kurt, but have you looked at Carrera prices recently? It's very difficult to even find a decent driver quality car for $16k.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by ymmv

There's never been a Porsche outside a unique race car with special wins at Le Mans etc., that has done better than a checking account.

My Speedster and I beg to differ.

[motion]

I bought my 20,000 mile 993 about 10 years ago for $40K. If I keep it another 20 years, it should be worth $41K

[manbridge 74]

I like to equate 911s with Harleys. If you buy them in good shape you can generally sell them for what you paid for them, getting to drive and enjoy them along the way.

[intakexhaust]

Great comments. Unless one was in the biz, its all relative. In the 1980's and when the special order builds - slantnose, turbo's + some t-looks, 89 speedster, etc. the market on some were commanding $5k over. Its just the way it was. We even purchased new turbo's from other dealers who simply sat on cars or were oddly slow selling in their territory. We paid LIST for a few! Marked them up $5k over. Some of the best comments that I still get a chuckle were from stock brokers. They were buying a Porsche as a great investment....

[Trog]

Well, my 911 has done a lot better than my City Bank shares.

[72T]

I see "investment" as more than the money. The joy of driving my 87 is a big return for me. Now, the 72 money pit I sold, even with the inflated long hood prices, I still didn't come out too far ahead on that one.

I also still own my first car, a 1965 Buick Skylark convertible. Bought it for $2,600 bucks in 1985. One nicer than mine just sold at Scottsdale for under $10K, buyers premium included! I tell my wife we own the only '60's era convertible that hasn't appreciated in value.

But the memories from high school, college, and beyond, the top down fun with my kids, that is all part of the return on investment. Some day, when I can't drive anymore, I won't care how much the memories cost.

I say don't own an old Porsche for any reason but the fun, and you will never be disappointed.

[Venetian]

Quote: "Everything is relative. I bought my '86 Carrera back in 2001 from a Pelican member. In the last 12 years I have rebuilt the engine, suspension, brakes, etc. If I add everything up I probably have $25K in the car."

You must have got a deal on that car. I bought my '87 in 2001 for $32000 and probably have about $15000 into it . I don't think I'm going to break even! This is Canada though so probably unfair to compare prices.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Venetian

Quote: "Everything is relative. I bought my '86 Carrera back in 2001 from a Pelican member. In the last 12 years I have rebuilt the engine, suspension, brakes, etc. If I add everything up I probably have $25K in the car."

You must have got a deal on that car. I bought my '87 in 2001 for $32000 and probably have about $15000 into it . I don't think I'm going to break even! This is Canada though so probably unfair to compare prices.

To show you how times have changed, back in 2001 I had a '72 Targa and had to trade it and some cash to get the '86 Carrera!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

To show you how times have changed, back in 2001 I had a '72 Targa and had to trade it and some cash to get the '86 Carrera!

Doh! My '70 911T was a very mechanically solid driver that I sold for $7500 in 2003. It would probably be $17,500 today, if not more.

[Rapewta]

I remember back in 1991, the collector car world reached critical mass.
I was just finishing up a build of an AC Cobra replica and knew a handfull of
car owners that bought cars strickly for the investment.
The Balloon burst in 1992 and a lot of speculators were left with ruinous loans.

One guy I knew had bought an original CSX 427 AC Cobra that some racing livery at around 800K. He put it up for sale at his Exotic Car dealership for 1.2 mil.
It didn't sell. The last I heard was the car was worth 430K.

I never figured that making a couple grand on my little purchases was worth the time and effort so I just drove them.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Rapewta

... so I just drove them.

My Carrera has probably been the lowest cost per year of any sports car I've ever owned.

Rapewta...I will never EVER read one of your posts without LOL now (having read the screen names threads).

It's "Raputa the buta" fwiw....Blow Your Face Out

A favorite band from long ago...

[yazhound]

Wonder how the Vettes would fair were they really DDs? My personal experience with Chevy has not been good, although never a Vette. Now, the 912 I have, which my father purchased new for just over $4k in 68, was a DD and I am guessing I could double that now at a minimum?

[Rapewta]

KC911...
You pegged it bro'.

Let down your hair. Let me climb up your ladder of your love.

Yea... Rapewta the Beauta!

[CMDR Perry]

Porsches are great cars to drive but in my experience they can very expensve to own and maintain to a high standard. I sold mine after six years because I thought it was a better idea to invest $ in my 401K. My current toy is faster and more comfortable to drive any distance and costs a fraction of what my SC did for annual maintenance.

Would I buy another Porsche? Yes, possibly a Boxster or a Cayman but it would have to be a very good deal upfront. Having an understanding of the true cost of ownership will keep me from making an impulse buy. DP

[ymmv]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

My Speedster and I beg to differ.

That's why my first paragraph states: "The arguable exceptions are the likes of the '73 RS or '89 Speedster or some rare examples of the 993, if undriven or with extraordinary provenance. "

If you've got a pristine '89 Speedster and it's still worth 75% of its purchase price, you're doing okay. But that's '89 dollars versus 2013 dollars. The purchasing power of the 2013 dollar is woefully diminished just since 2000, let alone trying to find an net present value we could agree on to equate '89 with 2013. Depending upon when you bought the Speedster, and suffered the ups and downs, the maintenance and the careful usage limits for a quarter century, it's either a very enjoyable driving experience and rewarding ownership experience, or an astutely timed purchase that can never see its profit realized without giving up the car! : )