Calling the Docs: medical/murder questions
 

After watching a couple movies tonight on LifeTime about crazy, psycho killer women, the GF and I got into a short discussion about Murder.
One of the women in the last movies replaced Insulin with Vodka... perhaps the intent wasn't to kill outright, as much as make her very drunk while driving in order to cause an accident.
I know that alcohol straight into the bloodstream WILL kill you.
How much alcohol would it take?

I mentioned that another alcohol method (and perhaps one of my favorites) would be by vaporization, say with one of those old school vaporizers our mom's used to make us hover over when we were sick kids... inhaling vaporized alcohol? Straight into the stream via the lungs...

She's a non-believer in that method.:confused::rolleyes:

Again, how much alcohol vapor would be needed?


Yet again, another favorite method is scrapings from a Teflon pan loaded into a cigarette. Phosgene gas, anyone? :eek:
Yes, a Cig cherry burns plenty hot enough during the draw.
I found some studies by Dupont where they did studies in the 50's ... .4milligrams loaded smokes was enough to cause "Polymer Fume Fever"

Wondering, how much would it take?


She's a complete disbeliever....



Got any favorite methods for killin' someone?:D

Still having problems with that GF and her son?

AHhaha, no.. noting that serious. :D

Sir, you seemingly don't have enough of a sense of self-care to know when you're embarrassing yourself. And you apparently learned nothing about same from your recent epic thread. Pitiful. :(

It's a good thing I don't give a removed - ns what you think.

I'll be expecting a visit to BanIsland for a while for that.

I didn't post to get responded to rudely.

ya never knows what yer gonna git when ya's post on the olde world wide web.

Why the animosity?
 

I also think it's funny that the Good Doctor there doesn't bother to chime in, except to insult. Apparently he doesn't realize the questions had nothing to do with her, except the discussion we had on the method in the movie.

Kind of like shoving a tube up yer a$$ and filling it with alcohol. Not filtered through the liver or kidneys as can kill apparantly. Saw it on a show here where kids in the U.S where doing it to avoid smelling like booze. :eek:

Yep. Butt-Chugging they call it. Gross. The bypassing everything is part of what I tried to explain.

Wolfe, I really need to get up to Seattle and jam with you sometime. You and I will get along just fine, my man.

Any time. Always welcome to stop by. SmileWavy

Even though the question seems intellectual, it also seems like you're asking how to commit murder. All this talk about death and dying. I just finished reading an old thread from when Marc (Drago) died from diabetic ketosis in 2009. Can we talk about something else? :(

_

I remember :(
I've had plenty of death lately. Lost my mom on the 15th, and the Mentor is still on his way out.:(

My father died in November, lost a friend over the holidays and Otto died on Friday.

Yet all three of them would have a laugh at Wolfe's idea.

Oh no, no bright ideas here. :eek:

But, here's a good laugh... I'm not sure if you saw this thread about my Mentor or not...
The old man is still kicking. He's getting ready to go to his last Sci-Fi convention this weekend, to sell his bladed weapons. They've decked out his wheelchair, since he'll be needing it.
On the back of his wheelchair will be a faux headstone, with a symbol similar to a three-pronged throwing star. Around it, in Latin, in the phrase "Because I need the money" of something like that.
He's got a very good sense of humor about himself dying. A priest friend of his recently joked with him that God would not let him into Heaven... because he doesn't want his Angels pregnant!

Very sorry to hear about your father and others.:(

I did read up about him. Seems quite the character.

I'm calling BS on the Teflon burning with Phosgene byproduct.
Phosgene cannot exist above 200 C, above those temps it breaks down again into Monoxide and Chlorine. that's why Phosgene production requires cooling (the production is exothermic).

I can't comments specifically on Phosgenes break-down, but there's Some good reading here about Teflon offgassing when it's get pretty hot.

I will say that I'm not quite sure what "fluorine analog" refers to when Phosgene is mentioned in the second paragraph.
A chemist, I am not.

Well it's a different chemical, related, not the same

All's fair in Chemical Warfare?:D
Dead is still dead, I suppose.

How is it related?

Notice his location Wolfe...

Sure, dead is dead, but Phosgene more dangerous
similar structure


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...luoride-2D.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ons-2D.svg.png


They dug up an intact 90 year old phosgene canister 800 meter from my house, 2 years ago

looked a little something like this
http://www.mausershooters.org/digger...vens/foto6.jpg
This one was from 2000 also not far from here. can't find pics of the more recent one

Yes. I'm assuming he's familiar with Chemical War. Or at least, Chlorine.

Chlorine, Mustard Gas, Phosgene.. It all got used in my area of the WW1 Battle fields.

Why the animosity?

Good one Paul
Jim

In Robertson Davie's hysterical book, "The Papers of Samuel Marchbanks"....he describes a plan to commit murder using an icicle. The perfect murder weapon.

That doesn't fix any of the other problems of getting caught.
Blood spatter, witnesses, noise, signs of struggle, the dead corpse...

6 quarts on average.

0.1% BAC --> 6 * 0.001 * 32 = 0.192

So, about 2 tenths of an oz to be legally drunk.

Insulin is not given straight into the blood stream....it's injected just under the skin and in a volume so small that if replaced by vodka you'd never feel it. Not having insulin for a while OTOH will do you in but not suddenly.

Over heated Teflon will kill birds right now. That's just if left on a stove top burner...dunno about smoking it ...gruesome thought none the less.

There was a fad going around a year or two ago where you would drop dry ice in grain alcohol or vodka and inhale the vapor. Apparently what was produced in the reaction was pure alcohol vapor that you inhaled and would give you an immediate effect. Always up for experimentation, I gave it a try:D. It is far easier just drinking it straight then trying this way, unless you like having your lungs catch on fire and non stop coughing.:(

The physics of the situation says that you were breathing CO2, not alcohol.

In the routine sense this is true however I give insulin IV all the time to treat DKA. The patient is in the ICU and closely monitored but it does happen frequently.

Rick,
Never knew that, but I can imagine the scenario easily enough. I was just thinking of home use.

I don't think Wolfe's question is out of line, just a daily occurrence in the writer's room on any one hour crime drama.

I was recently working on a film (till they pulled the plug for script revisions) on poisoning with polonium 210. Lots of info on the web, really nasty stuff. It's the preferred way of international/ political assassination, that's what killed Alexander Litvinenko and possibly Yassar Arafat....

Polonium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So in other words, not very much at all...

Ahh, I did not know that.

Ice melts, weapon goes away.

Since when is absence of a murder weapon a guaranteed get out of jail free?

A weapon that melts does not help with :
Witnesses
Hard evidence (blood spatter, dna , hair fibre's, signs of strugle, a corpse )
Circumstantial evidence

furthermore, you try getting a good grip on ice to stab somebody with
the tip will melt and /or break really quick, becoming blunt

You would need to get it right on the first strike, and that would mean some serious precision stabbing to avoid the ribcage and other hard parts protecting the vital organs.

Chances of getting that right are really low, might as well buy a half decent second hand Remington 700 that shoots Minute of angle .. , put a silencer on it, and stalk then do a shoot&scoot on the victim from 100-200 yards in his own backyard.

When done, cut it all up into minute pieces, roast the individual parts with an Oxy torch, mix em up with fish chum then go fishing in a big lake or at sea.

Been done in an old Charlie Chan movie where they used an ice bullet.

...which was then tested on Mythbusters.

Busted.

Icicle to the inside aspect of the eye real close to the nose to pierce the brain?