Texas actually does have an express line to the death chamber, just as Mr White indicates.

If the laws do not apply to everyone equally, what good are they? That is what this thread is about.

I hear you, Hugh, and I'm fine with the gun battle. It's just the decision to burn the place to the ground that becomes problematic for me. When you listen to the scanner traffic, and you hear a cop broadcasting over his radio to "burn the f**king house down", and THEN they switch from cold gas to incendiaries, commonly known as "burners", I don't see professionalism. I see rage and vengeance, neither of which I expect from authorities.

Tell ya what...for all who think the decision maker in this incident committed "murder"...let's have a jury trial anywhere, anytime and see what 12 reasonable people think. I can't believe some of the second guessing going on in this thread :rolleyes:

That reminds me, i have some Orange peel chicken in the fridge from last night. Deep fried.

Thanks man! SmileWavy

When was he told to come out? I never heard that reported. There was never any plea made by the authorities for him to lay down his weapon and come out.

This was clearly an extremely dangerous individual. He clearly stated his intentions, followed through, refused to give up and commited the worst against others. So he short cut his trial. What more is there to do but destroy him immediately. An object like a house or cabin is meaningless in this case.

It's not second-guessing. The FACT is, that the police, by their own admission, were using cold tear gas, and switched to incendiaries on purpose, to burn the cabin down, without any attempt to let him surrender.

Again, let's be clear, Chris Dorner deserved to die. The police did not have the right to decide that. They should have exploited every opportunity to take him into custody, because that's what we pay them to do. We pay Judges to sentence them.

+1. Our cities routinely pay out (actually their insurance does) several million for a LEO's "wrongful death" suit (ala the Wilmington, NC LE killing of the 18 year old). This incident wasn't EVEN close to being as vile and disgusting as others that occur...I'm just sayin'.

I respectfully disagree...let's have a jury trial if that's what you think and put the "decision maker" (not some hothead heard on the radio) before 12 citizens to decide. The chances of a "guilty" verdict are not even slim...and you know it :rolleyes:

Possibly, but that doesn't make it right.

Its funny how the same people who object to shooting someone that broke into your home, saying there should be less lethal options, fully support shooting and burning down an occupied building... SmileWavy

So your entire position rests on the police never asking him to come out. That you never heard it reported, and because you never heard it reported, therefore the police never said, come out and surrender.

That's what you are going on? You didn't hear it so you created a narrative making Dorner a poor little lamb. He had no choice, the police trapped him and just burned the building down after he shot an officer on the scene. He was never given an opportunity to turn himself in peacefully and go through the legal system where he'd have his day in court.

Show me the source that shows the attempt, and I'll change my tune. I've shown you a source indicating they were screaming to burn it, and the top cop at the press conference described the sequence of tear gas usage, and ignored the reporter when he asked if there was any attempt to get him to surrender. You'll never get me to say I support Dorner. But I'll defend his 5th Amendment right to due process forever. If you think my concern is for Dorner, you have a comprehension problem.

Substitute Dorner for an inner city drug dealer, pimp, petty thief...

I must have missed all the threads about those Heroes gunned down in cold blood every single day by police in Chicago, New York, Boston, Dallas, LA.

All those innocent fallen heroes killed by power-hungry cops, oh the outrage in all the threads I must have missed.

no you won't. you've fabricated a comfortable story for yourself. nothing will sway you from idolizing Dorner as a hero.

LOL

Sorry, not biting

Actually the PD did use loudspeakers to try to get him to come out of the cabin. I don't think they tried very hard though, and then they rammed the walls down with an armored vehicle, so they really weren't ever "negotiating".

ZOA is not idolizing Dorner, what he's saying is that we are a nation of laws, and everyone deserves equal treatment under the law.

I agree the cops dished out a bit of street justice, no question about that. But this case is so extreme, is there a slippery slope? Or should this be a lesson to crazy folk to not go bat***** unless you want to die....

There you go. Change your tune. Retract everything, stop idolizing a killer and demonizing police doing their jobs.



When you are told to come out by police and instead you shoot them, your actions mean that there is a strong likelihood you will be shot and killed by the police.

Actions have consequences.

Man, all the bleeding heart liberals on this board coddling a killer who had every opportunity to peacefully turn himself in over the course of a week is, frankly, frightening. it's not his fault though, I know, his mom didn't hug him enough.

This thread makes me want to vomit. Dorner deserved what he got.

Precisely, and it's not very comforting to know that the police will make a specific choice to kill someone when they don't have to.

No love for the 5th Amendment, huh? Hope the LAPD cops never mistake you for a cop-killer, you'd never get to tell your side of the story.

LOL, you talking about ME?

when you shoot at the police, they get to kill you. that's the contract. don't like it, Canada is nice I hear.

When are you going to start a grassroots effort to stop all the urban drug dealers, pimps, thieves, etc. from getting killed by police every single day.

I don't see a change of tune yet.

this seems like the same tune. When are you changing it?

Don't see a source yet.

No source? WTF?

So you are calling rusnak a liar?

C'mon, Shaun, you researched before you trolled, right?

post a link

can't find one?

LOL! You are so far down the rabbit hole that you are calling someone supporting you, a liar.

Depends on where that trial is held. I don't know the politics of San Bernardino County. But if a few LAPD cops were on trial in or around LA, watch out. Plenty of folks in that jury pool would love nothing more than to take a swipe at LAPD.

What if a police sniper had a clear shot and made a "specific choice"? I don't give LEOs a "free pass", nor will I second guess in this case. A jury trial is the only way to settle this imo...let's have one. Put the commander on trial...seriously :rolleyes:

OK, I give up. Dorner got what he deserved. You guys can chew on the 5th Amendment issue and whether or not the police murdered a suspect they could have arrested.

Plenty might Rick, but that's why (right or wrong), it takes 12. Doesn't matter "where" a trial would be held in this incident...ain't gonna be a "conviction", no way, no how (and I think everyone on this thread knows it). Just my .02...

I'm not positive, but snipers are given the ROE before taking up position and those ROE usually specify they can only kill armed adults, not "shoot perp on sight." The sniper doesn't get to decide if it's cool to shoot. The shot has to be within the ROE. At least in this case, a sniper could have saved the homeowner's cabin and spared the gov't. a large insurance settlement and lawsuit.

And the commander could very well be looking at some civil rights charges by the feds. Who knows what Holder will do on this? It's not like he's apolitical in which federal laws he chooses to enforce.

I'm done here too...jury trial...let's have one.

That might still happen. Wait'll the lawyers get involved.

You guys SHOUTING about the LAPD not using the loudspeaker telling him to come out reminds me of a secret weapon of WW2. Unable to find the pic of the German version and I'm not sure if they actually used it. Here's a brief:
NOISE THAT KILLS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never too busy to pick-up a new idea, or to try out a new weapon, some German scientists in World War II experimented with noise as a means of causing fatalities among troops of the enemies of the Reich. Such was the discovery of Allied observers who investigated the more technical aspects of the Nazi war effort.

Near the little town of Lofer, the Germans had established a small experimental station intended originally for research on problems concerned with mountain artillery. Eventually, however, this station became devoted to experiments in connection with lethal sound.

Experiments were carried on by a Dr. Richard Wallauscheck, the assistant director for technical research. His last and best design for a sound weapon consisted of a parabolic reflector slightly over 10 1/2 feet in diameter, with a sound combustion chamber mounted to the rear of the reflector.

Into this chamber methane and oxygen was fed through two nozzles. The mixture of gases was exploded within the chamber, and the sound of the explosion was intensified and projected by the parabolic reflector. Explosions were continually initiated by the shock wave from preceding explosions at a rate of 800 to 1,500 per second.

The main lobe of the sound intensity pattern had a 65-degree angle of opening. At a distance of 60 meters (198.5 feet) from the generator, the sound intensity has been measured at a pressure believed sufficient to kill a man after 30 to 40 seconds exposure. At greater ranges, perhaps up to 330 yards, the same pressure, while not lethal, would be very painful and would probably disable a man for an appreciable length of time.

The operator of the device is housed in a wooden cabin at the rear of the machine and wears a soundproof helmet.

The weapon has a very doubtful military value, chiefly because of lack of range. The whole machine is large and unwieldy. Unlike some experiments carried on by the Germans, no actual tests were made with human beings acting as guinea pigs. Perhaps this indicates that the Germans themselves did not have too much faith in the device as an effective and practical weapon.

I doubt San Berdoo would even give a jury award in a civil trial. The guy was simply too gruesome. They'll have to pay the cabin owner, but that's it.

What's really troubling about our times is that we're finding out how impermanent our values are. In this case, maybe we're seeing an erosion of our values. Nothing is permanent except for change. That's of little comfort, but probably true.