Pistorious charged with murder....

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by red-beard

But in general, you can't put someone on trial for pre-meditated murder, be found not guilty, and then be retried for involuntary manslaughter.

The only exception is the "violation of civil right" thing. They came about when southern courts refused to convict obviously guilty people, usually in race related crimes.

Not exactly. Civil rights violations are not an exception to the double jeopardy protection in the Constitution. Civil Rights violations are federal cases, not state criminal cases and if you commit an act that violates both state and federal laws, you are liable to be tried in both jurisdictions because the single act is two different crimes--one state and one federal.

There is no federal law against murder, only state laws. In the cases you mention, the state courts could not gain a murder conviction of the accused killers of Civil Rights workers in the south--even with overwhelming evidence. As a result, the accused killers were indicted by a federal grand jury and tried in a federal court for violating the federally protected civil rights of the dead victims. This is where they were finally convicted--not of murder but of denying the civil rights to the men they killed.

[Willem Fick]

I guess as it goes I need to start with an apology to all concerned, as I should really have taken a breath and counted to at least ten before my previous post.

With that out of the way;

As you guys will know by now the investigating officer got his marching orders yesterday with seven attempted murder charges against him being broadly implied as the reason for his departure.

Contrary to what may be thought, the murder charge against him is not necessarily all that serious on the surface of it. In the wake of some unfortunate shooting incidents involving the police, South African law was amended in that any officer who discharges a weapon at someone gets charged with attempted murder as a matter of course. If it is proven that the shooting was justified, the case is withdrawn. There are however untested allegations that accompany the charge, and I think that the nature of these allegations might have given the defence team something to poke at, over and above the massive problems he has already created for the prosecution. He really did them no favours through his reckless approach to the crime scene, use of hearsay as fact, his mis-identification of herbal medicine as testosterone, his public stance regarding bail flip-flopping between “yes” and “no”, and of course the fact that he based some of his assumptions and evidence on “facts” he gathered from a woman’s magazine.

As far as I am concerned the murder charge against him was certainly a convenience for the prosecution to some extent, as he most certainly turned out to be quite a liability to their case, and this was a way of getting rid of him without having to site ineptitude as a reason.

His admittance that forensics support the events as described in Oscar’s affidavit also didn’t help the cause much, and at this point it seems as if the prosecution’s case will hinge on the fact that a bullet casing was found in the room an Reeva’s mobile phone on the floor outside the toilet, as well as circumstantial evidence relating to allegations of quarrelling and a history showing that Oscar had violent tendencies. Even if a reasonable explanation exists for the cellphone and the casing he certainly is not off the hook yet though, because even if the state cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was a pre-meditated murder of his girlfriend, they may still fall back of pre-meditated shooting of a person, and various other equally serious charges though.

What is really interesting is how public opinion is being influenced by the clarification of the facts. Where initially everyone was ready to join in a lynch mob, a substantial number of people are now either finding themselves on the fence, or even crossing over into the camp of those believing his innocence.

[Willem Fick]

He just made bail.

[bivenator]

Made bail? Is the prosecution intentionally throwing this case? I expect to see Pistorius in a white Ford Bronco before long.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by bivenator

Made bail? Is the prosecution intentionally throwing this case? I expect to see Pistorius in a white Ford Bronco before long.

They already have screwed the case.

Summary: The judge questions why Pistorius did what he did, but his story is consistent with the crime scene. And the Presecution did not make a case for his being a flight risk or likely to commit another crime.

At this point, I think the presecution should go for a lesser crime that they can prove with his testimony alone, like an accidental homicide. He is certainly guilty of that!

[MotoSook]

Bad information was eaten up (and propagated) by the media and public condemning the guy before the facts were out. Welcome to the modern age of media and Internet!

[ossiblue]

I started to get a sickening feeling about this case as soon as I read about the detective's testimony at the bail hearing. I'm not sickened because I want to see Oscar convicted, I'm sickened because I foresee another example where incompetence and possible corruption of the authorities will forever taint the eventual outcome of the trial. Should Oscar be found not guilty, the decision will be forever questioned and he likely will always be viewed with doubt because of the botched job done by the police and prosecution. Same can be said if he is found guilty but at least he will be able to use the incompetence as a grounds for appeal and possible release, though, again, it will be a release with less than complete confidence of his innocence.

If the authorities lack credibility, all will suffer, including the general public which will view their government agents with skepticism and cynicism. Dismissing the detective is a positive step by the prosecution in tacitly admitting that they are dealing with a botched investigation and are trying to regain some credibility. Unfortunately, the damage may already be done. Unless there is some solid, objective forensic evidence that is available that points to innocence or guilt, we are left with two versions of an incident that are supported by either the self-serving testimony of the accused or the incompetent and questionable investigation of the prosecution.

And the whole world is watching.

[intakexhaust]

The entire ordeal smells. Looks like another John McAfee 'legal' getaway with homicide.

[svandamme]

If i shot my loving GF by accident, and had one bullet left, i think i would make damned sure that bullet would go through my own brain stem.

There is really no way in hell can see myself living with myself after something like that.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by MotoSook

Bad information was eaten up (and propagated) by the media and public condemning the guy before the facts were out. Welcome to the modern age of media and Internet!

And so what happens now.....? THE PUBLIC STARTS FEELING SORRY FOR HIM! The bottom line is, HE EFFED UP and KILLED.

[intakexhaust]

Nice act Oscar

[MotoSook]

I don't think you get it. No one is saying the guy didn't screw up, but he hasn't been convicted other than by the media and Internet jury. If he legitimated killed his girlfriend by accident, he probably feels more badly and angry about it than you do. Put yourself in his position and ask if you think you could get a fair trial in that court or anywhere else given the high profile of the case and the quick to judge media and keyboard jury.

Quote de MotoSook

Bad information was eaten up (and propagated) by the media and public condemning the guy before the facts were out. Welcome to the modern age of media and Internet!

And so what happens now.....? THE PUBLIC STARTS FEELING SORRY FOR HIM! The bottom line is, HE EFFED UP and KILLED.

[rfuerst911sc]

Does he have to wear an ankle monitor ? If yes how...........

[intakexhaust]

Has anyone come forward on behalf of Reeva Steenkamp, family, close friends... confidential talk or correspondence about Mr. Opie innocent, humble nature?

Yes, we all want to believe the ones with partial legs (or whatever) and overcomes the odds, becomes known Worldwide Olympian star would never kill another intentionally. Yes, the media including during the Olympic televised coverage made him a God so lets give him a break.

Sorry I think the entire episode smells. I couldn't imagine not noticing if a I had this top magazine model girlfriend sleeping next to me, I then wake up thinking an intruder is present, NOT noticing she's out of bed, I go near the latrine or other room with a closed door, listen to hear if it's her or someone else in there, go back or call for her if concerned. Just fire away??? It just doesn't make sense with such a so called smart guy like Oscar.

[aigel]

So, how's it looking for Pistolius?

G

[Bill Douglas]

Well, he's romancing a new (very young) girlfriend. The time that most killers spend in jail awaiting trial he's been practicing up on his blade running, as to whether he can fool them in court only time will tell.

[sc_rufctr]

In South Africa, there's a 24/7 TV channel dedicated to this case alone.

So this must be a huge event there. Bigger than the OJ case?

[Joe Bob]

Looks like he got five years......

Pistorius jailed for five years for killing girlfriend Steenkamp

[LeRoux Strydom]

Yep, he got 5 years for culpable homicide (manslaughter) and another 3 years (suspended for 5 yrs) for negligently discharging a firearm in public. Both sentences will run concurrently.

He has to serve a minimum of 1/6th of the sentence behind bars, i.e. after 10 months he is eligible for correctional supervision aka house arrest.

[sammyg2]

Gee, I have no idea why south africa is the armpit-crime spot of the entire freaking world!

Maybe if they were a little tougher on murderers they might have less of them.