I've been reloading for over 40 years now, well into at least my second hundred thousand rounds. I have never experienced so much as a hangfire.

A local boy (Oregon, actually) won the IPSC world championship in the early '80's, back when they still shot real guns. Ross Seyfried is his name. The course of fire was over three days, with thousands of rounds expended. He won with his own handloads. A South African wound up in second place, but would have beaten Mr. Seyfried, had one of his factory loads not failed. It had no powder in it.

Oddjob, like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. I've heard of countless cases similar to what you describe. All of us have. Like I said though, when it got down to actually verifying any cases that really went down like that, Brian Pearce was unable to do so.

Anyway, we all make our choices. Mine are made based upon what I know works, and have actually seen work (or fail) for me on real live animals, first hand. Many, as luck would have it, of about the same size as a large man. And it doesn't take some ear splitting, wrist wrenching magnum, although in my younger days, I was led to believe it did. I've since learned better, having used original spec black powder loads in the .45 Colt to take a number of large deer. I actually shot one lengthwise through a pretty fair muley one day - a 270 grain bullet at just over 900 fps. Even if it came to that, I don't think a jury would hang a guy for using the very latest 1870's technology...:D

I've done plenty of my own reloading and rarely had any issues other than some loads feeling a lot weaker or more powerful than others in the same batch. But then I was usually drinking while making the ammo;). Still, for legal reasons, I like to carry whatever the local cops carry. It'd be hard for a DA to make a stink about the ammo if it's good enough for the cops.

The Harold Fish case, FWIW, was tried in Coconino County, which is pretty liberal, he had a very bad lawyer and the DA was able to find the 12 most gun-ignorant jurors in AZ. Fish had a great gun and it saved his life. But he spent most of the rest of his life in prison before he was freed due to a change in state law specifically because of his case. No thanks. I think he passed away last year.

i dare say that now with all the hackles up against spoons or for spoons, that this is and has been recently how justified homicides(bad guy vs. us) goes down in courts across america. and its getting worse!


lawyers are a good part to blame. but then if a lawyer is accosted in his house or car...............well then its a different story. and ITS OK TO JUSTIFIABLY USE A WEAPON(any weapon).


to me if i was on a jury again and my time is a coming at me big time as its been awhile since i was drawn for jury duty, i would have to inform the other 11 members empaneled of what the hell really is going on in a justifiable homicide.


hell yesterday as wifey and i were going down a main drag here a woman was held up at gunpoint at an ATM! robbed of her hard earned money in broad daylight. cops everywhere, blah blah!


well ya know what? 1st i always watch my surroundings and ONLY when i am in dire need of cash do i use an ATM ever, but when i do, i can gurrantee YOU I AM ARMED! and JACKING ME AINT GONNA HAPPEN EVAR!


and since this crap has gone beyond GOOFY where good guys are being jerked by prosecuting attorneys.............i'm gonna hedge my bet and use just exactly what the cops use.


i have been doing this spoon crap all my life also. any P.I. can run around all the custom gun mfg's and find my name on their federal forms having custom spoon work done and the spoon received and then get exact invoice to what was done to it.


and then i am portrayed as a freeking "GUN NUT" when reality is............i'd give my left nut to go to camp perry or be on the olympic shooting team. so because i enjoy the shooting sports that makes me a freeking "gun nut"?


thats like saying i enjoy sex................WHICH I DO...................does that now make me a "SEX FIEND?"


or i enjoy fast cars so that makes me a "reckless driver?"



remember what i said about a "jury of yer peers." thats the LAST THING YER EVER GONNA GET IN A JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE CASE!"



the jury can argue just this..............."why did he use a JHP vs a FMJ?" the JHP is outlawed by the geneva convention." so therefore hes a "gun nut"!


think about that??????



but waits theres MORE to the argument..................



its OK to use JHP when hunting.................


its NOT OK to use FMJ when hunting..................


its OK to use FMJ on humans during time of war...................


its NOT OK to use JHP on humans during time of war.....................



buts its OK to use a MOAB during time of war....................


its OK to use NAPALM during time of war..........................


its NOT OK to use a .22 on big game animals while hunting................


its OK to use a 155 mm howitzer filled with BEEHIVES during time of war............



but its NOT OK to use biological/chemical weapons during time of war.............




so WTF???????????????




so with this conundrum i will carry(handgun and ammo) exactly what the state/county/lokal cops carry and pray for a jury that has some intelligence if ever involved in this crap!

I had not heard of this case, so I did some cursory "google" research (such as that is).

He did spend three years in prison, unjustifiably, before winning his appeal and gaining release. Not really "the rest of his life", although he has since passed away.

It does sound like he was attacked by a prosecutor with an agenda, that's for sure. He was certainly portrayed as a "gun nut", where the violent history of his attacker (a "violence nut"?) was not allowed into evidence. He did stick around to try to help the guy, waiting for authorities, when he could very well have just left (it was a remote area, with no one else around). An obvious miscarriage of justice all the way around. The kind that changes laws.

Nowhere, however, in the half dozen accounts I read (mostly on gun-friendly sites), was it mentioned that his use of handloads was in any way a determining factor in the outcome of his trial. Certainly not the determining factor, or even one significant enough to be noteworthy. Hell, it's not mentioned at all, at any level, in any of the accounts I just read.

I suspect that's pretty much what Pearce discovered in his far more in-depth research. I would guess this case was examined in the course of that research, as locally famous as it appears to be, coupled with the fact that is resulted in a significant change in the law.

I would also be less than surprised to learn that the mass collective of what passes for modern-day "gun writers" has blown this completely out of proportion, focusing on what they focus on - the gun and load. Probably cheered on by "expert" nitwits like Massad Ayoob, who has made a pretty fair living by being a professional "expert witness" on such matters. He desperately needs to keep these flames fanned, and his adoring followers will simply never contradict him or challenge him, lest they go looking for another gunwriting job.

harold fish died a broken man because of this case. and its a travesty that it happened EVAR!


all i am saying is WTF is the difference btwn reloads hot or medium flavor/JHP/FMJ when it comes down to self defense????


WTF is more deadly a 10mm a 44mag a .500 smith or a .22????


hell ask ronald reagan how dangerous a .22 is????



when it comes down to a life and death incident..................i want a freeking NUKE!


theres NO FAIR in a GUNFIGHT!


i want overwhelming el supremo firepower. i want to STOP THE ASSAULT! i want no part of it.



and the more we the peoples(US as in YOU and ME) when drawn on a jury trial for a justifiable homicide or wounding disallow this crap to go on like it happened to harold fish the better this nation will be.


if you break into a house and get shot..............theres no damn civil suit because you were wounded. and if ya got dead theres no criminal case as YOU broke the law and it serves ya right. and theres no civil suit by surviving family members for wrongful death.



the sooner this POS trash that are too lazy to get an education or a job figure out the armed homeowner or ccw aint taking NO CRAP, the better it will be.


i get on a armed homeowner shoots intruder trial..................you will have to drag my ballz thru broken glass and razor blades before i would convict the homeowner. samo as with badguy jacks someone at atm or in their car or starts a road rage incident and bad guy gets out of car and starts beating on ya thru window. just happened here not too long ago and good guy went free. shot badguy as badguy was hitting him thru car window. DONT EVAR GET OUT OF THE CAR and DONT EVAR GET OFF THE BOAT!(a-pock-o-lips now)


for the life of me i cannot figure out why badguys go after jewelery stores or ma and pa qwickie marts or liquor stores???? WTF? EVERYBODY KNOWS THOSE PLACES ARE ARMED TO THE TEETH and badguys still try and rob them????


darwin right there!



yep ya get drawn on a jury trial...................better think hard if you were in the defendents position. because any of US could be, if badguys try to hurt us or family and put us in fear of our lives.



the entire thing sucks for law abiding citizens. since when do the tables get turned and the bad guys have any rights????


the only way a prosecuting attorney gets stars next to his name and a raise, is CONVICTIONS!


yep preeettty UPSIDE DOWN if ya ask me.

Well, not knowing the facts of the case I can only suggest that his lawyer was an idiot. The NRA should have stepped up and helped.

I assume they didn't and if they didn't it just proves that the NRA is not the group they advertise themselves to be. Should have been a landmark case......where were they?

trolling for $$...
peddling memberships..
supporting folks like Harry Reid..
peddling membership...
trolling for $$

OJU, they fundamentally changed AZ's self-defense law in 2006 as a result of the Harold Fish case, AND made it retroactive in 2009.

Justification of use of force:
Format Document

Retroaction:
Format Document

For me, it all boils down to using the particular loads my (mostly fixed sight) guns are zeroed for, and that I'm familiar with. That, and loads I have confidence in - like I said, I have personally had hollow points (and for that matter, JSP's) fail on game animals. I won't trust my life to them. So, in the end, I won't use a load with a different point of impact and in which I have no confidence anyway. That's why I prefer my own handloads - I've had success with them in the field and I know where they shoot.

This was posted on FB this AM.

California to Ban all Semi-Automatic Guns, Confiscate Firearms and Limit Ammo Sales

I just have to wonder that in places that want to confiscate guns...how do they plan to reimburse the owners for the value?

I predict a very low compliance rate with that new law. I'd ignore it.

Just some idiot trying to make headlines. Not a law, it's proposed legislation....


BTW, still need to get rid of these starter pistols......I have 2, a .22 and a .32. Bunch of sealed in the box BLANK ammunition. Some blank .38 rounds.....

Also two boxes of OO buck, shotgun shells (10) shells total. 2 3/4 inch.

https://post.craigslist.org/imagepre...2f019711d1.jpg

That's insane. I googled for other news on it, and sure enough, it looks like CA is planning on confiscation assault weapons from registered owners. Ammunition restrictions are pretty intense too -- background checks, 500 round limit (e.g. if you own more than 500 rounds, you're in violation), ban on possession of certain kinds of ammo ...

Wow.

These stupid new laws might actually help the real estate market in AZ. I just hope the new KA-escapees don't try to change the local politics here to be more like that which they fled.

Went to a gunshow yesterday and it was crowded but not like the madhouse that it was a month ago. At least now things have settled down on 30 round mags but the lines for the ammo sellers were still long...

Mike,

Why are you getting rid of ammo? Always good trading stock...

Keeping my .38 and .357......clearing out the rest....

Do you guys out in Cali have a castle law?

I'm interested in getting something in .308 at some point, but I can't see myself getting a new caliber when I can't get ammunition, bullets, powder, or dies.