tell me about the 45-70

[matt711]

Jeff,

You are probably right about the .450 and longevity. I think Hornady is the only ammo source and only in two weights. That is one reason I have held on to every one of those $2 brass cases...

I stopped reloading several years ago when th Army decided to move me every other year. Packing up everything that often was a pain and the contract movers didnt want to move powder or primers. Now that things have settled down I am definitely going to get back into it but primarily for 10mm, 45 ACP, and 9mm pistol ammo. I shoot a lot of that stuff, .450 not so much. It isnt good for the arthritic and surgically corrected shoulder.

The .450 Marlin was more of a "just because" gun for me. It was a gift from my father.

[Jeff Higgins]

Hell, it's not even good for a healthy shoulder, Matt. I swear my hot .45-70 loads in my '95 Marlin hurt more than my full house .458 magnums in my Ruger #1. Stock shape, rifle weight, and things like that all conspire towards some major recoil.

From your dad, huh? Awesome. All the more reason to save that brass to ensure you can keep her running, and maybe even pass her on to one of your kids (if you have any).

[porsche4life]

What you doing in OKC? Shoot me your number, we should get together.

[ODDJOB UNO]

i am on the lookout for a stainless 336marlin lever in 30/30 just because i can and i know anything "JM" marked from conn. factory will go up in value just like all my win 94's have.


but after you have shot a 45/70.............................a 30/30 is a pip squeak poodle shooter in comparison. samo ballistics as a m-1 carbine or a 7.62x39.

i have a choice everyday and anywhere i go after years of collecting spoons of what i take with me. i CANNOT FIND a more lightweight pleasurable rifle for general camp/truck/berry picking/ antibear anti mtn lion/fishing rifle than the 45/70 overall i can choose from.

its wayyyy lighter than any .308 i have or shotygun.


5 shots of 325gr/405gr/500gr will drop any damn thing that pisses me off and make ONE HELL OF A BIG EXIT HOLE! and my problem WILL GO AWAY NOW!


my sons long barrel we put a 3x9 leupold on. its heavier, but packs a punch at distance. and by distance i mean MAYBE 400yds if yer on yer game that day. 300yds with a long barrel 45/70 would be more like it in reality.

short barrel...............200yds max and thats if yer good.


the trajectory is a rainbow plain and simple.

up close...................its a burlington northern sante fe freight train hitting ya!


MEPLAT BULLETS for nasty azz bears period!



remember about 16 gazzillion BUFFALOS were whacked with a 45/70/405. and yes all of them WERE HARMED DURING TESTING!



and if ya have never been up close and personal with a buffalo..............well YOU AINT LIVED! they iz ONE NASTY AZZ KRITTER! and they WILL STOMP YER AZZ TO DEATH!

[HHI944]

Hey OJU, I've got a whopping $350 in my pre64 winnie

[fred cook]

I had a Springfield trapdoor model 1884 (I think) and some original Frankfort arsenal ammunition made for the rifle. From the bench, shooting at 100 yds, that combination could cut a perfect cloverleaf of 3 shots all touching the others! Of course, the rifle had the good Buffington sights that were very finely adjustable. Never was able to get that kind of accuracy with any other load (factory or otherwise). The original 45-70 actually came in two loads. One for the rifle (45-70-500) and the other for the carbine (45-70-405). In the old military rifles, the recoil was not too bad, more like a heavy push than a kick. And, it was interesting to be able to see the bullet as it made a nice rainbow arc to the target!

[Jeff Higgins]

J.S. Wolf wrote a great book covering how to assemble the original Arsenal loads for the Trapdoor. He passed away years ago, but his wife Pat is still selling it. It is definitely a "must read" for anyone who hopes to make their old Springfield shoot. Even for guys who don't own and shoot the Springfield, it provides valuable insight into just how the Arsenal got black powder to shoot so well. Lots of seemingly insignificant little tricks that all add up to consistent, accurate black powder ammunition.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by HHI944

Hey OJU, I've got a whopping $350 in my pre64 winnie

man i love my winchester 94's. hell of a fun deer rifle,general varmint rifle/plinker beer can murr-durr-er.

theres a couple of cool websites with the commemorative values that will make you blow snot out yer nose at the prices, now that winchester went belly up and became japcrap.


we know this guy here that has SHELVES FULL of the commemoratives NIB that he has purchased over his 70 some odd years on the planet. i mean even the ammo NIB with the samo commorative logo. ie john wayne rifle with john wayne ammo/oliver winchester with oliver winchester ammo etc etc ALL NIB!

amazing is all i can say. one of the coolest winny collections i have ever seen.



they say MORE DEER HAVE BEEN SHOT with a winchester model 94 than any other gun ever mfg'd.

[HHI944]

I had my pre64 and an Olin era at the same time, the difference in fit and finish was visible from feet away, when firing it was night and day

[flipper35]

I didn't think the recoil is any worse than a 12ga, but then mine isn't a carbine.

Fun to shoot and pretty accurate. There was an article a while ago on them and said the longest recorded shot was 1300+ yards (or so, accounts vary and I don't have the article handy). Good thing there weren't aircraft back then or one would have gotten in the way of the shot.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by flipper35

There was an article a while ago on them and said the longest recorded shot was 1300+ yards (or so, accounts vary and I don't have the article handy). Good thing there weren't aircraft back then or one would have gotten in the way of the shot.

Read up on the Sandy Hook test of the .45-70. I think the range they were shooting was 2 miles and their target was 6 feet in diameter.

The Montgolfier brothers would've been in trouble!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I didn't think the recoil is any worse than a 12ga, but then mine isn't a carbine.

It depends on the load and the weight of the rifle. Original black powder loads, (and the modern smokeless loads safe in those rifles) kick about like a 12 gauge, you are right. These are 400 grain bullets at 1,200 to 1.300 feet per second. Take that same 400 grain bullet and push it over 1,900 or 2,000 fps, and it's a whole different ballgame.

Originally Posted by flipper35

Fun to shoot and pretty accurate. There was an article a while ago on them and said the longest recorded shot was 1300+ yards (or so, accounts vary and I don't have the article handy). Good thing there weren't aircraft back then or one would have gotten in the way of the shot.

The two loads shown on the right in my photo on page one of this thread are viable 1,000 yard match loads. I used them regularly at Ft. Lewis, Washington when we held monthly 1,000 yard matches. On a relatively calm day, we would shoot scores in the high 80's and low 90's on the standard high power target. Cast bullets, black powder, and iron sights only. Yes, the old girl will shoot.

[flipper35]

Yup, standard 405gr cartridge. It is my 100 yard brush gun and sighted point blank to 100 yards. My problem is that it has very fine iron sights and my eyes are getting old.

A couple years ago our church men's group had a shooting competition and we had been shooting at a small hanging silhouette at 100 yards. Everyone knew when I hit it with that gun.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Yup, standard 405gr cartridge. It is my 100 yard brush gun and sighted point blank to 100 yards. My problem is that it has very fine iron sights and my eyes are getting old.

Ah, you and me both. I just don't see open sights the way I did when I was younger. I refuse to scope any lever gun (and most single shots, for that matter), so that's not an option. I think it's actually illegal in most civilized countries. Or at least it should be.

My solution was to go to the XS Sight Systems (formerly Ashley Outdoors) "ghost ring" peep sights. These things are fantastic for us old farts wandering the dark woods with our old lever guns. Very visible, even in dim light, even with bad eyes. All of my Marlins are currently sporting them.

Originally Posted by flipper35

A couple years ago our church men's group had a shooting competition and we had been shooting at a small hanging silhouette at 100 yards. Everyone knew when I hit it with that gun.

I bet they did...

NRA black powder cartridge rifle silhouette never really took off around here, so I never had a chance to shoot much of it. Had to travel some distance to find matches. Boy, I tell you what though, clobbering those silhouettes with 500 grains of lead was was pretty near the most fun I've ever had. What a hoot.

[id10t]

PEDERSOLI DOUBLE BBL 45-70 $2500 : Other Rifles at GunBroker.com

[HHI944]

May god forgive me........I think I'm gonna put a green laser on my 94......
She's already very non-original.......reblued barrel, smoothed trigger, williams peep, aftermarket sling swivels/studs and a green canvas sling, limbsaver, buttstock spare ammo holder......

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by HHI944

May god forgive me........I think I'm gonna put a green laser on my 94......
She's already very non-original.......reblued barrel, smoothed trigger, williams peep, aftermarket sling swivels/studs and a green canvas sling, limbsaver, buttstock spare ammo holder......

I've heard of some rather severe cases of tissue rejection when others have attempted this. The metal parts start to rust, the wood begins to dry out, and all manner of malfunction begins the plague the poor thing. Folks have had to resort to some rather drastic measures in an effort to make this marriage a happy one, up to and including the use of those modern whiz-bang Leverution plastic-tips bullets. There is no telling what else they may have tried, when no one was looking. Truly heart-breaking stuff.

Just kidding... How would you even do that? I assume it's an angle eject, or there would be no way at all to pull it off. Forgive me, but I know less than nothing about laser sights. I've seen them on those evil black rifles and some pistols, but it seems to me they are all mounted on Picatinny rails. Actually, when I think about it, I think XS Sight Systems makes such a rail, at least for the Marlins.

[HHI944]

She's a Top Ejector.....the laser mounts to the magazine tube, on the bottom. She eats almost nothing other than leverevolution anyway, the stuff is great ammo.....great power, easy to shoot and not a lot more expensive than regular ball stuff of decent quality.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by HHI944

She's a Top Ejector.....the laser mounts to the magazine tube, on the bottom. She eats almost nothing other than leverevolution anyway, the stuff is great ammo.....great power, easy to shoot and not a lot more expensive than regular ball stuff of decent quality.

Oh, o.k. - I was well and truly confused. I heard "laser" and thought "dot sight", like the Aimpoints. So this is just one of those little penlight size things that projects a dot, for really close range stuff in relatively dim light. Might be a great set-up for defense of the old homestead against both two and four legged intruders. Probably just the ticket for coyotes, raccoons, possums, and other denizens of the night. Post a picture if you can - I'd like to see what this looks like.

[HHI944]

Little bigger than a penlight, but yeah, it should ship tomorrow.....I'll post when I have it mounted.....yup, thinking it'll be just the ticket for sub 50yd stuff