Returning a Used Car/Buyer's Remorse Question

[Noah930]

My BIL sold his Audi A4 last week (it's been 4 or 5 days, I believe). 2002 model year with 94K miles. Private party sale here in California. The buyer now wants to renegotiate the terms. Apparently an oil leak noted prior to the purchase is a bigger deal than the buyer believed.

MY BIL is not a car guy, and he's a pretty honest guy. Amongst other issues, during negotiations for the car, the two discussed this oil leak. My BIL admitted he didn't know why the car leaked oil, but that it did. I suppose this didn't deter the buyer, as they quickly negotiated a price, exchanged money, and signed over the title. Now that the buyer's had the car for a weekend (and presumably did a little research or took it to a mechanic), he has called my BIL back and wants to renegotiate or return the car.

Normally, I'd say no dice. Once completed, a deal is a deal. But, in talking with my BIL it seems that he did not smog the car pre-purchase (as the seller is required to do in CA). So maybe the deal is not legally complete. The car has never had problems passing smog in the past (even with this oil leak) so I'm guessing it should pass now as well.

What does the PPOT braintrust say?

Would knowing the price of the transaction make any difference? If it sold for a high price, would that make a difference in your answer compared to if it sold for bottom dollar?

I read edgemar's thread from a couple months back, but that didn't answer my questions for this situation.

[strupgolf]

I had a transaction like that last year. I bought a Jaguar from a private party who said the car didn't leak any oil. Sure enough, the garage and driveway were clean. I gave him a check, on a friday, and drove it home. When I looked at my garage floor the next day, it was full of spots of oil. I wouldn't have any of that. I took the car back, parked in his driveway and at the same time, in his garage where they had parked the car always. Full of spots. I told him I didn't want it, gave him the keys, walked away, and stopped payment on the check. That will teach him, next time don't lie. Now your smog problem might stop everything, I don't know Cal. laws etc. but your BIL did tell the buyer it leaked oil. I didn't know, he did, so I'd say sorry.

[NYPorsche]

I think that it is all in what was honestly disclosed - if your BIL disclosed what he knew, I'd say it was a risk on the part of the buyer that the buyer knew going into the deal.

The buyer rolled the dice and it turned out to be a bit more serious than he thought - if there were no issue/a minor issue - would the buyer be coming back to offer your BIL more money?

I went through something like this a few years back with my wife's Kia- water pump was going bad, I knew the water pump was going bad and priced the car accordingly as well as mentioning it directly in the ad and disclosing it to anyone who came to see the car.

Someone buys it - I tell them take it directly to your mechanic and get it fixed. What do they do? Drive it for a month, seize the pump and blow the engine. They came back to me wanting their money back. I felt bad for them, but the issue was fully disclosed and the error was on them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Typically as soon as the money exchanges hands the deal is done. "Buyer beware".

[Seabear]

As uncomfortable as the situation is, with no PPI I don't see where the buyer has a complaint.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by Seabear

As uncomfortable as the situation is, with no PPI I don't see where the buyer has a complaint.

Me too. I see it as a "hail Mary" attempt at getting out of the deal.

My current Mazda came from a small car lot. After driving it home I found a huge puddle of oil under the car. The dealer ended up paying for half of the part and I did the labor. I was pleasantly surprised that he participated at all. I left a positive review of the dealer on a dealer rater web site.

I did sell a 4x4 Nissan truck to a young guy years ago. After paying for it, he backed out of my driveway, revved it up to about 5000 rpm and dumped the clutch, spinning the big off-road tires. His grandfather called me a week later to say that the transmission had gone out on the truck and asked if I'd help pay for the repairs. I might have considered it if not for the smoky burnout he performed on departure.

[RWebb]

both the above are generally true, assuming there is no specific contract provision allowing unwinding of the deal

but... what is the penalty for not smog certifying the car?

sounds like Calif. has a law that may take precedence -- at a guees, your BIL might have to pay to get the car repaired to meet smaug

but he'd have to do that regardless of the oil issue, right?

your BIL needs to figure out the smaug thing so the dragon won't bite him in the azz

[KevinP73]

If your BIL got a decent price for the car would he consider sharing the cost of the repair just to avoid the headache?

Straight from the Ca.DMV website,
For Used Car Buyers Only
•A used car buyer may obtain a two–day sales Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.
Note: There is no “cooling off” period unless you obtain a Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.
Consumers who purchase a used car for less than $40,000 must be given an opportunity to purchase a two–day Contract Cancellation Option Agreement.


Exception: The Contract Cancellation Option Agreement does not apply to used cars priced at $40,000 or more, new cars, private party sales, motorcycles, off–road vehicles, recreational vehicles, or vehicles sold for business or commercial use (Does not include a pickup truck purchased for personal use).

[Joe Bob]

No cool off in CA. He CAN take the BIL to court if he can prove non disclosure he can get damages up to the cost of the vehicle.

[speeder]

No cool off in CA. He CAN take the BIL to court if he can prove non disclosure he can get damages up to the cost of the vehicle.

Bullschit. People selling used cars privately have no legal obligation whatsoever to even know the mechanical condition of the car, much less provide some "disclosure". They might have a moral obligation to tell what they know but most people don't know enough about cars, (or care), to know every issue an older car may have.

It is completely the responsibility of the buyer to examine the car, and get a PPI if they do not trust their own ability to assess a used car. All used car sales are, "as-is" in CA., (and most other states), unless otherwise stated in writing. The fact that the seller did not provide a smog certificate is a separate issue and could only be a legal issue if the car will not pass smog. It's not some magic bullet that cancels a transaction. The buyer accepted it w/o a smog. I do it all the time, (buy cars w/o smogs).

The guy could sue in small claims court for the cost o the repair, but he'd lose.

[Joe Bob]

Bullschit back at ya.....if you can prove it small claims court and get an idiot for a judge it can cost you.

I once lent a p/u truck to a tenant....with the bring it full, you break, you fix you pay.

wanker hit every pothole in LA, flattened 2 tires, left it on top of the tank fills in a gas station. I had to pay to get it returned 100 miles. I evicted him and kept his deposit.

He sued, the judge found for the poor renter. Anything can happen in court.

[speeder]

You cannot break tennant/landlord housing laws because someone borrowed your truck and fk'ed it up. I'm not sure that you should be giving legal advice on the interweb there.

[speeder]

BS would be the part about "prove non-disclosure". There is no disclosure requirement on used car sales in CA. You made that up.

[Joe Bob]

Geez, who pissedinyercheerios?

It was a warning not legal advice....anyone can sue for anything......what's it worth to avoid it?

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

No cool off in CA. He CAN take the BIL to court if he can prove non disclosure he can get damages up to the cost of the vehicle.

No disclosure required on private party sales in CA. No cool off either, unless purchased from a dealer who solicited the transaction at the buyer's location.

[Steve Carlton]

Did the paperwork for the transaction state no smog certificate to be provided by the seller? If not, the seller is responsible for it, which should just mean he reimburses the buyer (if he asks). This can come back to bite your BIL if the buyer takes his sweet time and then the car does not pass smog. A smart buyer could make this issue a headache for your BIL.

How much of a discount does the buyer want? If it's cheap enough, he should consider giving back some money and getting an agreement on the smog.

[Steve Carlton]

I smell spam, joeltcyp...

[intakexhaust]

Interesting scenerio for your BIL. I have no clue of the laws in the state where the transaction took place, but I've been on both sides of the fence - seller and buyer, private to dealer. If your BIL is ethical as a saint and has a good conscience, I would think the buyer owns it. Do they both have a hand signed, duplicate copies of 'sold as is and as shown'? Leave it for the court to decide.

[intakexhaust]

Another smelly Audi transaction. Years back I purchased an Audi as a private buyer from a private seller but who also owned a so named considered 'reputable' high-line import repair shop. Was told it was his wife's car and where he took exceptional care of it, blah, blah. I'll skip the details, but my fresh purchase turned for the worse. Trans started to slip within a few days to a complete kaput. I PAID to have the trans rebuilt (elsewhere), quickly learned the odo was spun and with clever detective work I was able to score the never to release / disclose dealer service records (why is that dealers?)and it was a slam dunk case against the scumbag. If it wasn't for the discovery, I would have been S.O.L. This 'mister reputable' played the wife has cancer card, postponed and delayed court action. It only made it worse for him, dragged out awhile but he lost. I could have pushed and the law would have closed his biz and him possibly risking jail time. By the way, I did have a bill of sale where I signed as buyer 'as is and as shown'.

With that, the OP BIL needs to have a clear conscience and make sure he's properly disclosed any odometer issues... if any. Other than that, he's probably safe to say that seller is now the proud owner of a leaky Audi . If it was a dealer sale, thats another matter and may have specific time (ex. 72 hours) to null the deal.

Lastly, a final tactic for a buyer to get out of the transaction is to claim 'under the influence' during that time. Difficult to prove, but cases in that scenerio have favored the buyer. So don't share a beer with the buyer during the transaction.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Geez, who pissedinyercheerios?

It was a warning not legal advice....anyone can sue for anything......what's it worth to avoid it?

No, anyone cannot "sue for anything".

I know a little about this. And my Cheerios are just fine. Your advice is bad in this instance.