Shooting large animals with rifles: What's the point?

[winders]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I suspected that you had over-interpreted the Kaibab deer study from long ago. Maybe you've also seen something on TV?

Numerous factors determine popn sizes, including so-called intrinsic factors, predators, disease, and many others. Hunting merely substitutes for other factors, and may cause popn sizes to differ.

Try not to get so wound up when you are wrong. Or move to PARF.

Here is text from a biology professional that actually are specialist in wildlife conservation:

"Hunting mortality is believed to be largely compensatory partly because it takes place before the harsh winter period, when most natural deer deaths occur. Because hunting keeps deer density below maximum, the deer surviving a hunt have more food (better habitat) and come through the winter in better condition than those in unhunted herds."

Robert L. Downing, wildlife biologist, publisher of over 25 scientific papers on deer, in "Restoring America‟s Wildlife"

How about this:

Deer Management - Catoctin Mountain Park

Scott

[fast_e_man]

I live in the foothills just west of Denver, We have overpopulation of deer, and rabbits, and other critters. The coyotes and fox population follows the rise in rabbits and the mounain lion population moves in to prey on the deer. The bears generally leave people alone, until fall when then are eating everything they can before winter hibernation.

Having listened (multiple times) to the sounds of a mountain lion taking down a deer on a summer night at 3 AM with the windows open, I can assure you that every deer or elk I have killed through the years has died faster and with less suffering than the deer that are taken out by a mt lion. Nature is hard on its creatures.

Most rural towns on the west slope of Colorado derive >50% of their business revenue for the entire year during the big game seasons. Like it or not, hunting is the life blood for most rural towns in the rockies, and it is an essential game management tool.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, those who lack first hand knowledge or experience should be less quick to rush to uninformed judgements. Consumptive use of wildlife (Hunting) may not be your cup of tea, but is has a valuable place in the management of big game, and the economy of most western states. I enjoy hunting for many reasons (see my earlier post), I'm good at it, and make no apologies to those who dissapprove.

How many of those who oppose hunting big game have ever thought about road kill deer and elk? Have you every thought about the animals laying on the side of road with broken legs or internal injuries. Lying there suffering. Is that somehow OK since the driver didn't mean to hit the deer?

How many of you stop to pick up road kill so it doesn't go to waste? I do, for the simple reason that I hate to see animals lose their life and go to waste. It's within your power to see that those animals don't die without some residual benefit. If you don't want the meat, that's fine, how about picking up the roadkill before it spoils and then donate the meat to the needy?

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by winders

You guys are clueless. If there were not hunting seasons in the U.S., most big game animals would not have enough food available to them in the winter to support the population.

Scott

here is the original post it is wrong and your other postings are irrelevant to it when correct, which seems hit or miss

[winders]

Originally Posted by RWebb

here is the original post

And?

Scott

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by fast_e_man

I live in the foothills just west of Denver, We have overpopulation of deer, and rabbits, and other critters. The coyotes and fox population follows the rise in rabbits and the mounain lion population moves in to prey on the deer. The bears generally leave people alone, until fall when then are eating everything they can before winter hibernation.

Having listened (multiple times) to the sounds of a mountain lion taking down a deer on a summer night at 3 AM with the windows open, I can assure you that every deer or elk I have killed through the years has died faster and with less suffering than the deer that are taken out by a mt lion. Nature is hard on its creatures.

Most rural towns on the west slope of Colorado derive >50% of their business revenue for the entire year during the big game seasons. Like it or not, hunting is the life blood for most rural towns in the rockies, and it is an essential game management tool.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. However, those who lack first hand knowledge or experience should be less quick to rush to uninformed judgements. Consumptive use of wildlife (Hunting) may not be your cup of tea, but is has a valuable place in the management of big game, and the economy of most western states. I enjoy hunting for many reasons (see my earlier post), I'm good at it, and make no apologies to those who dissapprove.

How many of those who oppose hunting big game have ever thought about road kill deer and elk? Have you every thought about the animals laying on the side of road with broken legs or internal injuries. Lying there suffering. Is that somehow OK since the driver didn't mean to hit the deer?

How many of you stop to pick up road kill so it doesn't go to waste? I do, for the simple reason that I hate to see animals lose their life and go to waste. It's within your power to see that those animals don't die without some residual benefit. If you don't want the meat, that's fine, how about picking up the roadkill before it spoils and then donate the meat to the needy?

Our Property in Up-State NY is a prime example, with less food, the deer starve & freeze, and while it currently isn't an issue on our property (surrounded by farms) but many places, are being so over-built, animals are loosing their homes & food supply
Now, I haven't been hunting in a long time, and I don't hunt down here in FL as the meat doesn't taste as good and the deer are the size of dogs, plus, I'm old school, Shot Gun is what I believe in, plus, only shoot if you have a clear, clean kill, don't want to let them run off & suffer because someone just wants to shoot..

As stated, developers are killing many more than hunters by forcing animals to leave their homes searching for food, where they end up getting hit by cars, being shot by idiots because they venture onto some residential property

[mikesride]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

MMA is 2 adults that choose to engage in the sport.... No one is forced, and the goal is not to injure your opponent but to win by having them submit. Injuries often result but that is due to the competitive nature of the sport, just like football. I also don't know why your trying to make it seem like I'm against hunting. I never said that, you did. What I said was that sitting in a tree stand while on twitter waiting for a deer to walk by below and than taking it out with a shot is not hunting, nor does using a high powered rifle with a scope. You are also minimizing the fact that an innocent animal is killed (main objective) where this is not the case with real sports that take actual talent.

Have fun!

I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!



I hope you know I am really having fun with this!! I hope you are!!

BTW... millions of innocent animals get killed every day to feed the world in less human conditions than any animal that gets killed hunting.

I believe you are probably a great guy!! And I did understand your earlier post to be about all hunting, my bad I guess.

(I have gotten caught up in this stuff.....I say stuff like, "I am outta here...you guys are nuts, only to find myself coming back in to check up on the mess later on!!! Human nature I guess!!)

BTW...The picture with the redneck talking about the turkey shoot was freaking hilarious!!!

[berettafan]

Trophy hunting is not my thing. I don't get it.

But differentiating bird hunting from moose hunting is childish. What is the difference between harvesting a dove and a moose or deer? You said it yourself, you see human qualities in a deer whereas you apparently don't in a bird. That is very simply ridiculous. Understandable but ridiculous just the same.

Holding a dying animal reminds us that many of our comforts come from ugliness. This is the 'connecting to nature' that many talk about. It's very real and it matters.

[Dantilla]

Interesting thread.

What a complete disconnect to suggest people should not hunt when there is meat at Safeway.

[wdfifteen]

I'm of two minds on the subject.

I don't hunt anymore, I did not enjoy watching animals die and I quit 40 years ago. On the other hand, I'm glad for the good, responsible hunters who do, especially those who kill (OK harvest if it makes you feel better) deer in my area. There are too damb many of them these days. It's a constant fight with the deer for me to grow my own food in my garden, not to mention the danger they pose to roadway traffic. Years ago, before wildlife management, the deer population was much smaller and coyotes had pretty much left the area. Now that we have more controlled hunting the deer and coyotes are both back, and I hate them.

When I hunted deer with a rifle I followed wounded animals while they suffered and bled out, sometimes for an hour or more, so I wouldn't call hunting humane, certainly not as humane as a slaughterhouse. Bow hunting may be more sporting, but it's easy to wound without killing. Bow hunters are responsible for a lot of animal suffering. I would rather see a guy with a big scope and powerful rifle take his prey out in one shot. One thing is for certain, in some places (like where I live) they need to be taken out on way or another.

I was at our local park a few weeks ago. It's only a couple of hundred acres, mostly mowed, but there is a small prairie area where a few quail live. Some brave sportsman tested his skill by shooting 2 of them, and the showed his reverence for their sacrifice (I LOL at that language) by tossing them under the tires of his truck and running over them. I guess he thought if he reduced them to mush no one would catch on to what a azzhat he is. Hopefully, it's guys like these who are the victims of hunting accidents.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by mikesride

I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!



I hope you know I am really having fun with this!! I hope you are!!

BTW... millions of innocent animals get killed every day to feed the world in less human conditions than any animal that gets killed hunting.

I believe you are probably a great guy!! And I did understand your earlier post to be about all hunting, my bad I guess.

(I have gotten caught up in this stuff.....I say stuff like, "I am outta here...you guys are nuts, only to find myself coming back in to check up on the mess later on!!! Human nature I guess!!)

BTW...The picture with the redneck talking about the turkey shoot was freaking hilarious!!!

Its all good, and your right about coming back. lol.... Now you know why I stay out of PARF.

[PorscheGAL]

I have enjoyed reading this post and the responses on a forum based on premium cars is fascinating. I suspect most cars in the BMW, Mercedes and Porsche forums have leather seats. The leather interior is a trophy! Leather seating is the same as a moose head or stuffed fox.

I am not qualified to judge the value of a cow vs a deer's life, but both could be considered innocent animals. I think the deer has more of a chance against the rifle than the cow does against a car shopper's check book. At least the deer had a chance of living free at some time in it's life.

The point in shooting a large animal with a rifle could be as simple as wanting a deer skin appointed interior in your P-car. It would be ugly, but morally the same as a cow skin interior.

[motion]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I have enjoyed reading this post and the responses on a forum based on premium cars is fascinating. I suspect most cars in the BMW, Mercedes and Porsche forums have leather seats. The leather interior is a trophy! Leather seating is the same as a moose head or stuffed fox.

I am not qualified to judge the value of a cow vs a deer's life, but both could be considered innocent animals. I think the deer has more of a chance against the rifle than the cow does against a car shopper's check book. At least the deer had a chance of living free at some time in it's life.

The point in shooting a large animal with a rifle could be as simple as wanting a deer skin appointed interior in your P-car. It would be ugly, but morally the same as a cow skin interior.

Nope. You missed this one by a mile. Using the skin from the cow is another example of using all the parts of the kill for the maximum use.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by motion

Nope. You missed this one by a mile. Using the skin from the cow is another example of using all the parts of the kill for the maximum use.

True enough. The way I look at it is there's no way to stop the farming and harvesting of animals. Sometimes you think the meat is the by product. I wonder if these hunters that promise to eat every last morsel do anything with the fat, bones, hooves, hair and hide. Not to mention the organs and other internals. And blood. It all has a use.

Mnnnn..., time for breakfast. I'll have some oatmeal with blueberries, thank you.

[flipper35]

Deer skin gloves ar far more comfortable than leather.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Trophy hunting ... I don't get it.

...

it provides some of the components already mentioned in this thread:]

- companionship with your buddies (this goes back a million or more years)

- same with a good gun dog (and Happy Arf Day everyone)

- being out in nature & being a part of it (even when making something apart from it..)

- knowing an animal's behavior; habitat; etc.

- the act of stalking or sit&wait

- show off display; braggin' rights; etc.

note that many of the above components of the hunting experience do not require killing the animal - they can be achieved by taking photos of the animal (or by counting coup on an animal - smacking it with your hand on the rump)