This explains a lot

[widgeon13]

I hope this doesn't end up in PARF but I suppose it will.

People Getting Dumber? Human Intelligence Has Declined Since Victorian Era, Research Suggests

[tabs]

One would say deevolution especially in the last 5 years..

[Rickysa]

What exactly explains this decline? Study co-author Dr. Jan te Nijenhuis, professor of work and organizational psychology at the University of Amsterdam, points to the fact that women of high intelligence tend to have fewer children than do women of lower intelligence. This negative association between I.Q. and fertility has been demonstrated time and again in research over the last century.

Idiocracy.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by tabs

One would say deevolution especially in the last 5 years..

It's about the entitlement people feel... They government owes them something, a living, a job.

Old school stuff... You need to get out there and do it for yourself. Being hungry for success makes you sharp. I truly believe that hardworking, disciplined people make good choices in life.

How to realy harm someone? Give them everything on a silver platter and take the struggle out of their life.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

It's about the entitlement people feel... They government owes them something, a living, a job.

Old school stuff... You need to get out there and do it for yourself. Being hungry for success makes you sharp. I truly believe that hardworking, disciplined people make good choices in life.

How to realy harm someone? Give them everything on a silver platter and take the struggle out of their life.

As the author makes clear in the last paragraph, the study is talking about innate intelligence, not the kind that results from environmental factors. Factoring in the social environment, intelligence has risen since the 1940s.

Back to the subject, I think there are three factors:

High IQ women tend to have fewer children

Modern medicine keeps low intelligence people alive longer and gives them more opportunities to reproduce

Society treats mental retardation differently. Low intelligence people aren't kept behind closed doors by their families anymore, they are out in the population breeding.

[KevinTodd]

and yet we no longer feel the need to utilize Merkins as they did back then.......

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by KevinTodd

and yet we no longer feel the need to utilize Merkins as they did back then.......

"This put a strange Whim in his Head; which was, to get the hairy circle of her Merkin …*This he dry'd well and comb'd out, and then return'd to the Cardinal, telling him, he had brought Saint Peter's Beard."

[scottmandue]

I will go counter to the gloom and doom theme of this thread.

First, if there is a science fair in your city go to it (we have one every year here at work) it will boggle you mind what young people are doing nowadays.

Second, my niece and step daughter graduated from high school a year or two ago... they studied calculus, Latin, The list of books they had to read was daunting, and most high schools require 'X' hours of community service to graduate.

Miles above what high school was like when I went in the 70's.

I am not afraid of the future.

[BE911SC]

"The brain is the new appendix. You just don't need your brain anymore." --Dennis Miller

[sammyg2]

I seem to recall seeing a movie where in the future, the idiots had bred the smart people out of existence.........

[cockerpunk]

i always sit down when i hear things like this and wonder ... how can you measure intelligence?

IQ is pretty much bull ****, if you gave Abe Lincoln an IQ test he would have measured mentally retarded. knowledge tests test ... well knowledge .... how can you measure intelligence? what is intelligence?

[MRM]

Actually, I've read that Lincoln's IQ was estimated at 115 - bright normal. That probably underestimates his mental capabilities. In the last 20 years or so archivists have found old court records from cases he handled as a lawyer. They show unusually complex and successful legal arguments, often on behalf of railroad companies. Railroads were the big business of the day and could pay for the top legal talent. Rather than being a stumbling poor country lawyer, he was probably a very sharp and shrewd person. Now he was probably mentally ill, and his wife certainly was, but he was a smart guy.

Contrast him to FDR who even his advisors considered stupid. One of his people called him a second rate intellect with a first rate demeanor. Meaning that you can be great at what you do without a high IQ, as long as you have the social skills necessary to harness the horsepower you do have. Kind of like low-power/lightweight racecars being competitive with big horsepower brutes.

That's why I think IQ "studies" like this are useless at best and misleading at worst. Intelligence is three dimensional and IQ tests measure one dimension of intelligence. Besides, there is no long-term correlation between intelligence and genetics. Over time everyone's decedents regress to the mean. Smart people have dull children, geniuses are born in slums. Intelligence, like rain, falls on the just and unjust, rich and poor, equally.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

i always sit down when i hear things like this and wonder ... how can you measure intelligence?

IQ is pretty much bull ****, if you gave Abe Lincoln an IQ test he would have measured mentally retarded. knowledge tests test ... well knowledge .... how can you measure intelligence? what is intelligence?

Abe Lincoln, hmm, not sure why you brought his name up, as he was considered very smart by many. Do you have any documentation to back up your claim?
I fould one site that estimates his IQ at 128, which is well above the retarded stage IIRC.
Famous People IQ

Here's another that suggests Age was "mentally gifted" and had an IQ as high as 150.
Abraham Lincoln - A Gifted Man



While you're digging that up let's look at some of hte stuff he was NOT remembered for, shall we? Kinda makes ya think, many folks would have given up after so many failures and bad luck but he stuck with it.

1832 Lost job
Defeated for state legislature

1833 Failed in business

1835 Girlfriend died of typhoid fever at age 22

1836 Had nervous breakdown

1838 Defeated for Speaker

1843 Defeated for nomination for Congress

1848 Lost renomination (Chose not to run for Congress, abiding by rule of rotation among Whigs.)

1849 Rejected for land officer
Declined appointment as secretary and then as governor of Oregon Territory

1850 Oldest son dies

1854 Defeated for U.S. Senate Elected to Illinois state legislature (but declined seat to run for U.S. Senate)

1856 Defeated for nomination for Vice President

1858 Again defeated for U.S. Senate

1862 second son dies

1871 fourth son dies

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

I seem to recall seeing a movie where in the future, the idiots had bred the smart people out of existence.........

I thought it was a documentary.

[dhoward]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I thought it was a documentary.

It IS now.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by MRM

Actually, I've read that Lincoln's IQ was estimated at 115 - bright normal. That probably underestimates his mental capabilities. In the last 20 years or so archivists have found old court records from cases he handled as a lawyer. They show unusually complex and successful legal arguments, often on behalf of railroad companies. Railroads were the big business of the day and could pay for the top legal talent. Rather than being a stumbling poor country lawyer, he was probably a very sharp and shrewd person. Now he was probably mentally ill, and his wife certainly was, but he was a smart guy.

Contrast him to FDR who even his advisors considered stupid. One of his people called him a second rate intellect with a first rate demeanor. Meaning that you can be great at what you do without a high IQ, as long as you have the social skills necessary to harness the horsepower you do have. Kind of like low-power/lightweight racecars being competitive with big horsepower brutes.

That's why I think IQ "studies" like this are useless at best and misleading at worst. Intelligence is three dimensional and IQ tests measure one dimension of intelligence. Besides, there is no long-term correlation between intelligence and genetics. Over time everyone's decedents regress to the mean. Smart people have dull children, geniuses are born in slums. Intelligence, like rain, falls on the just and unjust, rich and poor, equally.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Abe Lincoln, hmm, not sure why you brought his name up, as he was considered very smart by many. Do you have any documentation to back up your claim?
I fould one site that estimates his IQ at 128, which is well above the retarded stage IIRC.
Famous People IQ

Here's another that suggests Age was "mentally gifted" and had an IQ as high as 150.
Abraham Lincoln - A Gifted Man



While you're digging that up let's look at some of hte stuff he was NOT remembered for, shall we? Kinda makes ya think, many folks would have given up after so many failures and bad luck but he stuck with it.

1832 Lost job
Defeated for state legislature

1833 Failed in business

1835 Girlfriend died of typhoid fever at age 22

1836 Had nervous breakdown

1838 Defeated for Speaker

1843 Defeated for nomination for Congress

1848 Lost renomination (Chose not to run for Congress, abiding by rule of rotation among Whigs.)

1849 Rejected for land officer
Declined appointment as secretary and then as governor of Oregon Territory

1850 Oldest son dies

1854 Defeated for U.S. Senate Elected to Illinois state legislature (but declined seat to run for U.S. Senate)

1856 Defeated for nomination for Vice President

1858 Again defeated for U.S. Senate

1862 second son dies

1871 fourth son dies

have you guys ever seen a real IQ test? they are filled with cultural references, basic knowledge, all sorts of things that we easily and quickly understand today, but in 1860, no one would understand.

the point is the metric is based on todays culture, education, and background, whenever you then try to use such a test outside of that area, it will fail to achieve an accurate result.

this is why IQ tests arn't really testing ones intelligence.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I will go counter to the gloom and doom theme of this thread.

First, if there is a science fair in your city go to it (we have one every year here at work) it will boggle you mind what young people are doing nowadays.

Second, my niece and step daughter graduated from high school a year or two ago... they studied calculus, Latin, The list of books they had to read was daunting, and most high schools require 'X' hours of community service to graduate.

Miles above what high school was like when I went in the 70's.

I am not afraid of the future.

I'd beg to differ about the quality of today's education (public). When I was in school, tests were not open book, and they were not multiple choice. It was a mixture of fill in the blank and essay questions. We were NOT allowed to use calculators. Fast forward to today. My step-son is a Freshman in high school. His finals are this week. Every test he's had is multiple choice, and only multiple choice (even English). Calculators were a REQUIREMENT that he had to bring to school from day one. I will say they've had him read some pretty decent books, though. Furthermore, he's had actual homework maybe twice all year. Most classes, he doesn't even have an assigned book that he can bring home to study from; they share books among the classes. So...I'd say education has gotten pretty damn crappy.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by gacook

I'd beg to differ about the quality of today's education (public). When I was in school, tests were not open book, and they were not multiple choice. It was a mixture of fill in the blank and essay questions. We were NOT allowed to use calculators. Fast forward to today. My step-son is a Freshman in high school. His finals are this week. Every test he's had is multiple choice, and only multiple choice (even English). Calculators were a REQUIREMENT that he had to bring to school from day one. I will say they've had him read some pretty decent books, though. Furthermore, he's had actual homework maybe twice all year. Most classes, he doesn't even have an assigned book that he can bring home to study from; they share books among the classes. So...I'd say education has gotten pretty damn crappy.

Schools are treated as if they were sausage factories: just keep the targeted graduation percentage and get funded. Schoolbooks are political footballs, with zealots advocating for what they feel should be included or excluded. Somehow, many school systems consist of more administrators than teachers. And to top it off, most parents have no involvement until their child fails a test or a grade, and then (in instances I've heard of) they demand a correction -- often accompanied by an attorney.

The result can be seen (I hate to say it) here on this forum every day in the quality of grammar and spelling, which can be abysmal. So the problem is not new.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by techweenie

The result can be seen (I hate to say it) here on this forum every day in the quality of grammar and spelling, which can be abysmal. So the problem is not new.

lots of loosers here. If we lernt to speel better we coulda been secretaries.

BTW, Why do race cars speed up when they hit the grass on the run-off area?

[Tobra]

I have been saying this for at least 25 years