Trayvon Martin case ..an actual Poll

[RWebb]

what will happen to Z-man?

(personally, I doubt it will be a murder conviction)

[onewhippedpuppy]

I bet he bans you!

[DanielDudley]

I'm thinking he will get off, but that they will lose the civil suit.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I'm thinking he will get off, but that they will lose the civil suit.

Exactly. Zimmerman is living proof you gamble with the outcome if you choose to use your weapon; Pray it's justified. Part of having firearms. You'd BETTER be right if you draw it.

rjp

[fintstone]

It doesn't seem to matter if you are right in this case. You are a political football/scapegoat. Obviously, justice is not as important as getting guns banned (for noncriminals).

[cstreit]

I'm relatively sure theyll find something to charge him with...

May not be for killing but some violation of some sort. Its so politicized that this will be the compromise struck behind closed doors.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I'm thinking he will get off, but that they will lose the civil suit.

How can an individual be cleared by an official court of law, but then convicted in the same matter?
Isn't that double-jepordy? (sp)

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by fintstone

It doesn't seem to matter if you are right in this case. You are a political football/scapegoat. Obviously, justice is not as important as getting guns banned (for noncriminals).

Yep, like the pregnant White girl that the Mob of Black youths beat.

Pregnant woman attacked by 12 assailants, police say
Woman six months pregnant beaten about the head

UPDATED 6:01 PM EST Feb 11, 2013


Pregnant woman attacked by 12 assailants, police say

SANFORD, Fla. —A woman who is six months pregnant was beaten about the head over the weekend, and Seminole County deputies said 12 people, ages 12 to 42, are responsible.

BOOKING PHOTOS: GROUP ACCUSED IN BEATING OF PREGNANT WOMAN

Several people face aggravated battery charges in the beating of a pregnant woman.

MORE
A Sheriff’s Office news release detailed the attack, which happened outside a Sanford home on Daffodil Terrace, and the arrests of several teenagers said to be involved.

Ashley Flournoy suffered several injuries to her head in a fight with neighbors. The fight stemmed from an argument, officials said.

Deputies said one of the alleged assailants yelled the group "did not care that she was pregnant."

Officials said Flournoy's injuries are not life-threatening and that they likely did not affect the child she is carrying.

Flournoy’s fiancé, Paul Brinkley, tried to intervene but was also struck during the attack, according to deputies. Flournoy’s mother and sister, Susan and Terika Young, were also attacked.

Deputies said a 12-, 14-, 15- and 16-year-old were arrested in the altercation. WESH 2 News will not identify the minors involved in this case.

The four minors will have to stay in juvenile hall for the next 21 days.

Several adults, identified as Antoinette Ford, Harry Roberts, Lasheena Thomas, Quentin Herring, Javaress Barnes, Willie Jones, Arshala Ford and Jarvis Young, were also arrested.

Roberts said Flournoy was the aggressor.



Read more: Pregnant woman attacked by 12 assailants, police say | Seminole County News - WESH Home

Pregnant woman attacked by 12 assailants, police say | Seminole County News - WESH Home

How can an individual be cleared by an official court of law, but then convicted in the same matter?
Isn't that double-jepordy? (sp)

Think OJ..

[Hugh R]

Originally Posted by john70t

How can an individual be cleared by an official court of law, but then convicted in the same matter?
Isn't that double-jepordy? (sp)

think OJ Simpson,

[regency]

I just recently completed a 16 hour CCW ( concealed carry weapon ) class. About 14 hours covered all kinds of these situations. Based on what I just learned, Zimmerman should be convicted simply because he didn't listen to the 911 dispatcher and followed & confronted the suspect. Zimmerman should have retreated and waited for the police.

After completing this CCW class, I'm not so sure I'm going to continue to seek a CCW permit. Seems like waaay to much responsibility just having a weapon.

1973 911 T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

Steve

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by john70t

How can an individual be cleared by an official court of law, but then convicted in the same matter?
Isn't that double-jepordy? (sp)

For the criminal case..the standard is guilt beyond reasonable doubt. For a civil case, it is a preponderance of the evidence. Sometimes a civil case just ends up being a pity or popularity contest.

[BeyGon]

In a civil case can all the evidence suppressed in the criminal case come out?

[fintstone]

Depends on the judge. Different judge, different rules. Not that it really matters. The civil court goes after money...and Zimmerman apparently does not have any. If I were Zimmerman and was found not guilty, I would go after Martins parents in civil court...maybe he can get the settlement money they got from blackmailing the Condo assoc. He probably has grounds to sue the state as well.

[HHI944]

I suspect, if Zimmerman walks, that his lawyers will sue everyone. Martins parents, the condo association, the state, various media outlets.........

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by regency

Based on what I just learned, Zimmerman should be convicted simply because he didn't listen to the 911 dispatcher and followed & confronted the suspect. Zimmerman should have retreated and waited for the police.

Steve

A 911 phone operator is not the same as a uniform officer on the scene telling Zimmerman to back off. The notion that Zimmerman should be convicted simply because he failed to follow the directions of a 911 operator is absurd. Those people are infamous for giving bad advice due to their lack of understanding of the tactical situation.

You may well be right that Zimmerman should have retreated, but the decision he made was not illegal. If Trayvon decided to jump Zimmerman and tried to kill him by bashing his head into the pavement, that would be illegal, assuming that Zimmerman wasn't walking around with his gun drawn. I have heard no evidence to suggest that.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by john70t

How can an individual be cleared by an official court of law, but then convicted in the same matter?
Isn't that double-jepordy? (sp)

NC thinks so. In many cases, CCW holders are quickly cleared in criminal investigations, but drained of resources in civil proceedings (even if they win). In NC, a CCW holder cleared of criminal wrongdoing in a lawful shooting cannot be taken to civil court. This is a relatively recent development that I believe was a part of our CCW overhaul from a couple years ago (great common sense legislation for once, but a topic for another thread).

Not sure if FL has a similar statute on the books.

Zim makes for an interesting case if there is such a statute down there. IMHO, he will probably be found not guilty of criminal charges. However, also IMHO, the entire situation was completely avoidable - Zim shares culpability with Martin for touching off a charged encounter that led to a death and a destroyed life. Did he try to retreat? I think the jury will decide he did. Did he feel his life was in imminent danger? I think the jury will decide he did. However - there's a subtle difference in the civil proceedings in a wrongful death charge. It might be argued in a civil proceeding that Zim's piss-poor judgment led to Martin's death - though I'm not a lawyer in FL or anywhere else and I don't know what Martin's contributory negligence would do to such a case.

Depending on the outcome of the criminal case, it may give lawmakers in many states a lot of food for thought in crafting future CCW regs.

[ossiblue]

Regarding the poll, a lot will depend on the decisions by the judge and the prosecution as to whether conviction on lesser charges will be allowed. If the prosecution chooses to hold fast to a second degree murder charge, effectively overcharging the crime, IMO, a la Casey Anthony, then the jury may likely vote not guilty. However, if the jury has the ability to vote guilty to a lesser charge, say negligent homicide, then they may very well vote guilty.

As previously posted, guilt or innocence in a criminal trial has no bearing on whether or not one is subject to a second, civil trial. Two separate venues--civil and criminal--so trials in each is not double jeopardy. Again, standards for guilt are completely different (preponderance of guilt vs beyond reasonable doubt), evidentiary rules are looser, as is the need for a unanimous vote by the jury--civil trials do not require unanimity.

Zimmerman has a very weak position to ever file a civil claim from the evidence known, so far. The Martin family has every right to question why the police never fully investigated the initial shooting, what's the ground for a civil suit?. The police and DA have the right/obligation to open an investigation if there is probable cause, and if evidence is found, the DA's job is to file charges if it's believed a crime has been committed. The press, well that's the 1st Amendment.

The Martin family, on the other hand, may very well file a civil claim against Zimmerman even if, or especially if, he is found not guilty. A lot will depend on who their civil attorneys are, IMO.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

As previously posted, guilt or innocence in a criminal trial has no bearing on whether or not one is subject to a second, civil trial. Two separate venues--civil and criminal--so trials in each is not double jeopardy. Again, standards for guilt are completely different (preponderance of guilt vs beyond reasonable doubt), evidentiary rules are looser, as is the need for a unanimous vote by the jury--civil trials do not require unanimity.

Agreed 100% and draws attention to the fact that I may have been too glib with the lead-in to my post. Double jeopardy means you can not be tried twice for the same charge. Criminal murder and civil wrongful death are two completely different charges.

[fintstone]

I think Zimmerman has plenty of reason to sue the state. Clearly the only reason this is going to trial is politics and publicity. There was never a shred of evidence and then the state reopened, releasing selective information that was clearly intended to defame Zimmerman even though they knew it was not accurate. They made Zimmerman a victim twice. On e when he was attacked and beaten by Martin and again when they destroyed his life in public forum.