Hard wood floors - Engineered vs. Solid & Click together vs. Glue Down

[red-beard]

We're about to replace a bunch of carpets in our house with hardwood floors.

Background: We have an 8 year old house, built on a concrete slab. At present, the downstairs is mostly tile but has 3 rooms plus a walk-in closet that have carpet installed over the concrete. We are not touching the tile.

Originally I was looking to use click together hardwood floors. The stuff uses a thin layer of wood with a heavy duty compressed fiber board (basically cardboard) in the middle. It is about 3/8" thick.

I looked at some higher end engineered wood, which uses plywood in the middle and has a real wood layer of about double the cheaper stuff. This requires the wood to be glued down. It is also about 3/8" thick.

The best looking stuff is 3/8" Brazilian Koa solid wood. The stuff looks fantastic and the grain and contrast on the boards is best. This is also my wife's choice. Looks amazing.

The floor guys are saying any of the items would be a good choice. With the glue down, we'll need to use a self leveling compound to make the floor perfectly flat first. Then use of a special sealing urethane glue with the vapor barrier built in. So, more work on the install.

I would really like to use the solid wood, glued down to concrete. Will this really work? The stuff definitely looks way better than the engineered wood. But the engineered wood looks way stronger with the plywood underneath. And the glue down engineered wood looks much stronger/better than the click together engineered wood.

And before someone suggests we put plywood down first. The house has tile. I do not want a huge transition between the tile and the hardwood. Even the thinest plywood underlay would make a 1/2" difference in between the tile and the hardwood.

Suggestions?

[VaSteve]

James, I hope you don't mind if I pile onto this thread rather than start a new one. I am in similar situation...wife wants to replace the rec room/basement carpet with Pergo (click together hardwood). The room has a ton of stuff in there.

My question for those that have been there....can I lay some of the floor and put the furniture back on it before the room is "done". ie baseboards nailed down??? I have no place to move everything in that room and I'm sure as hell not taking it all upstairs.

[tevake]

One consideration is that moisture can wick thru concrete . I put solid hardwood down on concrete slab on grade. Added moisture barrier and ply subfloor and still got cupping in the flooring from the moisture.

Cheers Richard

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

My question for those that have been there....can I lay some of the floor and put the furniture back on it before the room is "done". ie baseboards nailed down??? I have no place to move everything in that room and I'm sure as hell not taking it all upstairs.

Yes you can. Pick up some felt pads for the heavy items so they slide on the floor easily. I installed laminate (cheap IKEA stuff) in my kids bedrooms and didn't have to remove their dressers and desks. Their beds I did take out.

[72doug2,2S]

We have both. Main house 3/4 hard wood, vs apartment engineered wood. The apartment doesn't get much traffic since it is unoccupied. The apartment is also on a slab. I prefer the hardwood too. The hardwood is definitely showing some wear from chair legs in the dining room, though I prefer to call it character. We are looking for a larger area rug to help protect the wood.

The engineered wood is not showing wear, but like I said it is basically not in use.

[rouxroux]

Just did this in our house with Bellawood Brazilian KOA. beat flooring I've worked with. I'll post pics when I get home this evening. Not a single warped board in 16 cases. Let it acclimate to the house for a month, filled some spots in the slab, then glued it down.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by red-beard

We're about to replace a bunch of carpets in our house with hardwood floors.

Background: We have an 8 year old house, built on a concrete slab. At present, the downstairs is mostly tile but has 3 rooms plus a walk-in closet that have carpet installed over the concrete. We are not touching the tile.

Originally I was looking to use click together hardwood floors. The stuff uses a thin layer of wood with a heavy duty compressed fiber board (basically cardboard) in the middle. It is about 3/8" thick.

I looked at some higher end engineered wood, which uses plywood in the middle and has a real wood layer of about double the cheaper stuff. This requires the wood to be glued down. It is also about 3/8" thick.

The best looking stuff is 3/8" Brazilian Koa solid wood. The stuff looks fantastic and the grain and contrast on the boards is best. This is also my wife's choice. Looks amazing.

The floor guys are saying any of the items would be a good choice. With the glue down, we'll need to use a self leveling compound to make the floor perfectly flat first. Then use of a special sealing urethane glue with the vapor barrier built in. So, more work on the install.

I would really like to use the solid wood, glued down to concrete. Will this really work? The stuff definitely looks way better than the engineered wood. But the engineered wood looks way stronger with the plywood underneath. And the glue down engineered wood looks much stronger/better than the click together engineered wood.

And before someone suggests we put plywood down first. The house has tile. I do not want a huge transition between the tile and the hardwood. Even the thinest plywood underlay would make a 1/2" difference in between the tile and the hardwood.

Suggestions?

Threads you will find interesting:

Hardwood questions
Engineered vs. Laminate
Wood Floors

I have posted my experience in all of them. I prefer glue down install over concrete slab and nail down over wood. The floating laminate I put in my kids rooms and office is quick and easy but I dislike the sound and feel. YMMV.

[mossguy]

I have done some rooms in our house (concrete slab), following the instructions that came with the stuff, and have had no problems in 10+ years.
These are good for furniture moving:

EZ Sliders™ 8-Piece Furniture Moving Set - Bed Bath & Beyond

Use a sacrificial flooring piece/board to move from the unfinished to the finished side.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by rouxroux

Just did this in our house with Bellawood Brazilian KOA. beat flooring I've worked with. I'll post pics when I get home this evening. Not a single warped board in 16 cases. Let it acclimate to the house for a month, filled some spots in the slab, then glued it down.

Did you do the Engineered Koa or the Solid Koa? I guess I should have mentioned we are doing the Bellawood Koa and prefer the look of the solid.

[rouxroux]

We used the solid koa....I have to say I think it turned out rather well. Was able to bring up pics from this computer, so here's a few for you to check:

[wdfifteen]

My kitchen floor is going down next week and I've been all through this recently. So many opinions and so many options.
Mine is going over a plywood subfloor with a dry basement underneath. I didn't pay a lot of attention to application over concrete but I do remember some basics. Solid wood is much less dimensionally stable than engineered wood. In a situation where moisture can be an issue (humid climate or the location of the floor) solid wood was not recommended by anyone, anytime. In Houston I would use engineered wood. My friend in Sugarland has lost 2 roofs (and one hardwood floor) in the past five years.

Are you looking at literally gluing the wood to the concrete, or gluing the boards together?

The most dimensionally stable system seems to be click or glue together engineered wood floated on the subfloor.

I went with 3/8 inch, four or five ply (I don't remember which) tongue and groove boards that are glued together. They will float on a 1/8" pad made of recycled tires. On the demo floor this system sounded and felt very quiet and solid and everyone says it is the least likely to buckle.

[rouxroux]

VaSteve: Yeah, we did ours 1/2 and 1/2 to have some place to put furniture. Let it dry overnight so it does not shift. Another tip: use blue painters tape to tape each board down to the next so there is no shifting during install & drying. Saves BIG headaches if you do it this way. 4-5 strips across to the previously laid board does the trick. Oh, redbeard, the wood is actually a bit darker than in these pics (loads of sun and house lighting makes it appear light in spots.

EDIT: Bella has a special adhesive for this application...Don't skrimp!

[BRPORSCHE]

Red,

I have a buddy who sells floors. Let me know if ya want me to get in touch with him to get you a good rate.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by rouxroux

VaSteve: Yeah, we did ours 1/2 and 1/2 to have some place to put furniture. Let it dry overnight so it does not shift. Another tip: use blue painters tape to tape each board down to the next so there is no shifting during install & drying. Saves BIG headaches if you do it this way. 4-5 strips across to the previously laid board does the trick. Oh, redbeard, the wood is actually a bit darker than in these pics (loads of sun and house lighting makes it appear light in spots.

EDIT: Bella has a special adhesive for this application...Don't skimp!

Those look great! That is exactly the look were going for!

I was planning to use the Urethane sold by the Store (Lumber Liquidators) and get the self leveling compound from them as well. This way it is all compatible and the warranty matches.

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

Red,

I have a buddy who sells floors. Let me know if ya want me to get in touch with him to get you a good rate.

Hook me up, Tom! Give me his number or send him my mobile number.

[rouxroux]

Yes, we got all of our supplies from LL. As I said before, zero problems with the install, zero wasted boards. You can find cheaper material, but we wanted to do it right the first time.

[fireant911]

red-beard,
In regards to your last posting... we are in process of doing three rooms in our house with 3/4" hardwood. We first went to Lumber Liquidators and really liked the choices and price; however, after doing some Internet research, this organization had some really, really bad reviews. A multitude of complaints were filed with the BBB which seemed to mirror the complaints we read online. We found a family-owned flooring business and will probably go that route (they visited us just yesterday).

Oddly, a representative from Lumber Liquidators called me last week inquiring as to whether or not we had made our decision with the hardwood. I stated that we were definitely going along with our original plans for the three rooms but we were really concerned about all the negative feedback with Lumber Liquidators. Her reply was simply "do you want to close out your request". Never once did she even attempt to convince us otherwise or to even defend LL...

I was not sure if you were buying your flooring materials or just the Urethane from LL.

[BRPORSCHE]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Hook me up, Tom! Give me his number or send him my mobile number.

Let me shoot him an e-mail and see what he can do.

[red-beard]

Daryl, we are buying the materials from LL, but the work will be a local contractor. They prefer we buy the materials.

Unless Tom's buddy can come through.

James

[look 171]

Make sure you are not getting cabin grade. You get what you paid for. LL might be cheap, just make sure you know exactly what you are getting.

Talk to your installer in detail and make it clear as to what it is that you want. My installer always gets my floor. Spec out the floor and have them get it. it usually comes out to be about the same because they get it at a discounted rate. My advice is to have them get the floor leveler because they are use to working with a certain materials. They can do it in their sleep.

Personally, I like the 1/2" to 3/4" solid floor. Rift White Oak, or Maple floor are my favorite. Glue to concrete slab or install over a sub floor. I DO NOT like floating floors or floors that are 3/8" thick. Engineering floors are OK, but not my first choice. Just think, you don't see them making gyms out of engineering flooring, do you? At least I don't know of any.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

My kitchen floor is going down next week and I've been all through this recently. So many opinions and so many options.
Mine is going over a plywood subfloor with a dry basement underneath. I didn't pay a lot of attention to application over concrete but I do remember some basics. Solid wood is much less dimensionally stable than engineered wood. In a situation where moisture can be an issue (humid climate or the location of the floor) solid wood was not recommended by anyone, anytime. In Houston I would use engineered wood. My friend in Sugarland has lost 2 roofs (and one hardwood floor) in the past five years.

Are you looking at literally gluing the wood to the concrete, or gluing the boards together?

The most dimensionally stable system seems to be click or glue together engineered wood floated on the subfloor.

I went with 3/8 inch, four or five ply (I don't remember which) tongue and groove boards that are glued together. They will float on a 1/8" pad made of recycled tires. On the demo floor this system sounded and felt very quiet and solid and everyone says it is the least likely to buckle.

floors buckle due to 2 reasons. One is moisture penetration, the other is poor installation and sometimes poor choice of materials. Too wide or lack of expansion built into he install.