95 yr old WWII veteran tased and shot with bean bags in nursing home. Later dies

[VINMAN]

This makes me rage.

How are they training our law enforcement nowadays??

95-Year-Old Vet Dead After Resisting Medical Treatment, Tased and Shot With Bean Bags by Cops | Video | TheBlaze.com


Family members are questioning the death of a 95-year-old WWII U.S. Air Corps sergeant who killed by cops at an assisted living center last month after resisting medical treatment.

John Wrana died from injuries sustained in an incident, which was later ruled as a homicide by the medical examiner, by Park Forest police on July 27. Police were called to Victory Centre, according to the Chicago Tribune, when it was reported by faculty that he was being “combative,” resisting medical treatment to which he was being “involuntarily” committed to.
A press release from the police department emailed to the Chicago Tribune stated that Wrana was threatening staff and paramedics with his metal cane and a 2-foot shoehorn. The report states he later picked up a 12-inch knife.

The Tribune reported that police ordered the man to surrender, but his failure to do so and continued threats resulted in them using a Taser on him and then shooting him with small bean bags. Wrana dropped the knife and was taken to the hospital at this point.

Wrana was conscious when he arrived at a local hospital but died in the early morning hours. The Southtown Star reported the Cook County medical examiner’s office conducting an autopsy that found Wrana died from being shot in the stomach with the 12-gauge shotgun with bean-bag ammo.

The family now has an attorney looking into the case.

“This was a literal war hero,” attorney Nicholas Grapsas told the Southtown Star, noting that the family has not yet decided if it will file a lawsuit. “It’s outright insulting when you have such lack of respect for someone who served our country to the extent he did.”

.

According to Grapsas, staff and family who were at the assisted-living center at the time of the incident said they didn’t see Wrana pick up a knife. They also noted that he was sitting a chair during the altercation, meaning they believe such a show of force from authorities might not have been warranted.

The Chicago Tribune’s John Kass reported Maria Oliva with Pathway Senior Living, which runs the assisted-living center, saying staff was not in the room after police arrived to subdue Wrana. This, Kass said, shows “there was no imminent threat to staff” at the time Wrana would have picked up the alleged knife.

Kass also reported that after police barred staff from the room, workers expressed how they wished to re-enter to try and calm Wrana again. They were refused.

“At some point, I’m told there were between five and seven police officers, they went back to the room with a riot shield in hand, entered the door and shot him with a shotgun that contained bean-bag rounds,” Grapsas said of the situation according to Kass.

With police saying one thing and the family’s attorney presenting other information to the case, Kass reported veteran cops stating they believe unnecessary force was used.

“I’ve never met a police officer who couldn’t handle a 95-year-old man in a walker. And John Wrana wasn’t Jason Bourne. He was an old war veteran who didn’t want to be pushed around,” Kass wrote.

Wrana’s step-daughter Sharon Mangerson described Wrana as a “very vital 95-year-old” and “as independent as they come,” but she didn’t think he was dangerous.

Still, Kass reported a senior police official, who too thought at first the tactics used by police in this instance might have been excessive, saying that we don’t know exactly what law enforcement was faced with in the moment they made these decisions.

“If you don’t have all of the facts, it’s hard to judge someone. … Anyone can be dangerous,” Kass reported the official saying.

[Jim Bremner]

sad.

[cstreit]

MIGHT have been excessive? Fer cryin out loud, if no one was i n danger, why the rush to subdue him? They'll talk to a kidnapper for 36 hours but some old guy gets pissed when they are trying to force drugs on him, and they gotta fix this RIGHT NOW?!!

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I'm sure all the cops on the scene agree he picked up a knife.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

I'm sure all the cops on the scene agree he picked up a knife.

They probably helped him pick it out.

[Bill Douglas]

Even if it was a shotgun blank, let alone loaded with bean bags, it would kill a lot of people. The blast out of a shotgun is phenomenal.

Shame he didn't have a .38 special so it was more of a fair fight for a retired soldier.

[Grog]

I absolutely hate people as a whole. The human race sucks.

[URY914]

Hope the cops are proud of what they did.

[Hard-Deck]

Very sad. I'll be watching for the outcome of the cops but I fear nefarious cover-up.

[Baz]

Those cops should go to prison for life.

Basterds!

[GH85Carrera]

What assisted living facility has knives laying around in reach of a patient?

OK, he 95 and does not want treatment. Just back off and wait for him to fall asleep.

Those cops would fall for the hostage scene from Blazing Saddles.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

How are they training our law enforcement nowadays??

Seems like they must train as though they were a military force and the citizenry is the enemy.

[john70t]

Parf.....

But the wrongs are numereous in multitude.

[vash]

wow. i would have slipped a turkey sandwich under the door and waited for his food coma.
and how hard is it to "head fake" an old geezer?

my brother was gonna taze me once, but i chickened out. they had to shoot each other, and he said it wasnt that bad. i wussed

i'm pretty sure, when it comes to an old man..the rule is Tazer OR bean bag gun..not Tazer AND bean bag gun. i dont get it.

[Por_sha911]

The incident is so sad but too many people are reacting out of emotion instead of facts or logic:
-An assisted living community serves food that needs cutting (hence the knife). It is not a nursing home or a mental ward. He could have easily picked one up off the table in the cafeteria. The residents are supposed to be capable of functioning with assistance.
-The community has an obligation to preserve order for the sake of the other people living there. Do you want your mother there when a guy is going off the deep end? It seems that the gentleman went mentally AWOL and they had to diffuse the situation. At his age, almost anything could kill him. Even a fall to the floor.

****

That said, it behooves us all to have a Medical Directive in place before we become ill. It resticts the medical professionals to treat you only as you pre-outlined. This prevents the govt, hospital, or your family, from putting you through medical hell to prolong your life. You can stipulate what you are willing to accept (ie: anything to mitigate pain).

Lastly, if you have someone you trust, you should also have a Medical Power Of Attorney. It gives that person the right to make medical decisions for you IF you are unable to do so physically or mentally.

For example, I don't want to be put through chemo, put on a ventilator, or given surgery. I can designate that none of these things can be done. Give me morphine and let me go. I'll see you in Heaven.

PLEASE do this. You can get the forms online for free and all you have to do is sign them in the presence of a witness and have it notarized.

[john70t]

If a butter knife was even involved.....
1). The older (esteemed) man saw a mass of armed individuals advancing aggressively with weapons. Same as his youth fighting the Nazis.
2). Defend his person. A basic human right.

Where where the medical staff?
They must be directly inplicit in this failure....

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by vash

i'm pretty sure, when it comes to an old man..the rule is Tazer OR bean bag gun..not Tazer AND bean bag gun. i dont get it.

Sorry, when it comes to an old man, it's time to for the cop(s) to put on their big boy pants and "protect and serve", not "engage in roid-rage-fueled target practice" then do the "thin blue line" cover-up tap-dance.

I guess this hits close to home for me as my grandfather is 95 and was pretty damned healthy until recently. He had three strokes in close succession and went from being ornery but brilliant to ornery and confused. Still, he's 95 years old. The only way he could actually hurt anybody is if he is behind the wheel of a car.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by john70t

Parf.....

But the wrongs are numereous in multitude.

PARF only if you decide to push it in that direction...

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by john70t

Where where the medical staff?
They must be directly inplicit in this failure....

Really? Do you honestly think that Assisted Living facilities have a staff person to follow around each and every resident? Your comment would be akin to the school being responsible for a bully picking a fight with another student. The best you can do is find out its happening and put a stop to it.

It seems apparent from some of the comments in this thread that most of you have never stepped inside an assisted living facility and/or most likely not had to care for an advanced elderly person.

[VINMAN]

I'm pretty sure most of us are criticizing the actions of the cops, and not the nursing home staff. At least that was the gist of my OP.

As far as never setting foot inside of a facility, my grandfather was in an assisted living facility. My dad was in a nursing home, and now my mother is currently in one. So, I've had plenty of experience how they are run.