Stupidity

[john70t]

Open flame next to a high pressure gas pump? No.

[Hugh R]

Especially if your in a state without Stage II vapor recovery nozzles. If you have the old fashioned ones without the bellows around the nozzle the gas going in pushes an equal amount of vapor out of the tank around the nozzle. I knew a guy who blew up his boat while smoking and refueling it. No vapor recovery system.

[fred cook]

gas vapor to make a large mess when confronted with an open flame! Yes, the pail of gas will put out a match, but a little gas vapor and a spark will absolutely ruin your day!

[sammyg2]

Spent my life working at places that makes gasoline, many millions of gallons a day.
I have three industrial fire fighting certificates hanging on the office wall.
One from Tejas A&M, the other two from Univ of Nevada Reno (1 fire fighting, 1 for instructing).
I've fought 8 significant oil refinery fires in my life, which is 9 too damn many.

it's darn near impossible to light gasoline with a cigarette. But that's not the danger here.
it's what the Einsteins use to light the cigarette.

Back when I was your age, we used matches to light cigarettes.
Often those matches ended up being tossed on the ground (oh the horror).
Gasoline vapors tend to stay low cause they're denser than air.
They specially like sewers. A lit match thrown at or near a sewer opening filled with gas vapors causes a big ole boom, which on a good vs. bad scale is way down at the bottom right next to BAD.

THAT is why it became 'agin the rules to smoke near gas pumps and it remains to this day.

And they've proven in several O'ficcial tests that cell phones ain't the problem.
Folks who climb into the ve-hickil to talk on cell phones and then climb back out and touch the nozzle without first grounding themselves to discharge the static charge is a much bigger problem.

If you leave the nozzle, when returning touch the gas pump frame before touching the nozzle.
its a simple habit to have but a good one.

Oh, and iffn you see a guy filling a plastic gas can while it's in the back of a pick-em-up, go ahead and get a head start so he doesn't catch you on fire when he runs past you.

Static sparks are really, really hot. A whole lot hotter than a cigarette. A whole lot hotter than some pissant spark from a cell phone.

That's why a static spark can light gasoline vapors relatively easily and why it's dangerous.

[stuartj]

Sammy is right. Cant believe I wrote that.

Take a cup of gasoline. Insert lighted cigarette. Cigarette is extinguished.

Fuel vapour, however....

Redbeard- can you point to a single documented case of a fuel fire caused by a cell phone?

[daleflesburg]

Don't forget, Ignition takes a spark. I know, I know a diesel engine does not have a spark.

[gordner]

Ignition does not take a spark, just heat. That is the fire triangle, heat oxygen and fuel.

I talked to a representative of Esso Aviation fuels once regarding pump fires, and he provided many examples of aircraft lost during fueling due to use of radios or other electronic devices. Normally it is a contact arc or the like that causes the ignition, but he was pretty convinced that in the right situation a cell could start a fire while fueling.

Seems like it is just easier to avoid fuel vapour and smoking/electronic devices. He did however state that the leading cause of fuel pump fires for automotive is getting in and out of the vehicle, and that typically women are more than twice as likely to cause a fuel pump fire. As they apparently more commonly go in and out of the vehicle while fueling.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Sammy is right. Cant believe I wrote that.

Take a cup of gasoline. Insert lighted cigarette. Cigarette is extinguished.

Fuel vapour, however....

Redbeard- can you point to a single documented case of a fuel fire caused by a cell phone?

No, but I can point out many overcharged cellphones and other lithium-cobalt batteries that have spontaneously burst into flames. IF this happened near a gas station, it is possible to set something off.

My issue again is not the ringing or normal operation. It is the act of dropping the phone and breaking it.

[livi]

Just goes to show that Darwin was right all the time.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Sammy is right. Cant believe I wrote that.

LOL, like nostatic says when he agrees with me, "now where are those 4 horses of the apocalypse?"


It takes a hot spark to ignite gas vapors. A static spark is plenty hot enuff, some other sparks are not.

it also has to be in the range between the lower explosive level and upper explosive level, IOW the right fuel/air mixture.
Gas is kinda particular about that.
Hydrogen OTOH is not picky at all, it'll darn near ignite if you look at it cross eyed.

[sammyg2]

[sammyg2]

gas can in bed of truck. Its worse if you have a bed liner.

[Seahawk]

Ok, that's interesting.

Does it matter what the bed liner is made of, metal, plastic liner or the spray in stuff?

I set my plastic cans on the tail gate of my truck all the time.

Not no mo'.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Ok, that's interesting.

Does it matter what the bed liner is made of, metal, plastic liner or the spray in stuff?

I set my plastic cans on the tail gate of my truck all the time.

Not no mo'.

The movement of a liquid creates a static charge, just like shuffling your feet on a carpet. If the plastic can is not grounded, the charge can jump from the nozzle to the can, ba-woom.

If the can is on the ground, it's going to discharge that static energy before it has a chance to build up.
If it's in a truck bed that does not have a plastic liner, some of that energy will can be absorbed into the truck, even though it's sitting on 4 large insulators.

but if you have a plastic can sitting on a plastic bed liner, the charge will build. If you lose contact between the nozzle and the container for a split second, the spark MIGHT jump and your day is shot.
static energy is a beech.

That's why they put those warning labels on the bed liners.

[scottmandue]

I'm not saying it is a good thing... but back in the day...
When a guy would come out to your car, pump you gas, clean your windshield, check your oil, and the air in your tires free of charge... he often did so with a cig hanging out of his mouth.

And there were buffalo everywhere!

Have to admit to whipping out the cell phone while filling the car.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

but if you have a plastic can sitting on a plastic bed liner, the charge will build. If you lose contact between the nozzle and the container for a split second, the spark MIGHT jump and your day is shot.
static energy is a beech.

That's why they put those warning labels on the bed liners.

I have the spray in liner on my trucks but there is no sense in tempting fate.

I thought it was the plastic liners only. Is diesel an issue filling plastic cans?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I have the spray in liner on my trucks but there is no sense in tempting fate.

I thought it was the plastic liners only. Is diesel an issue filling plastic cans?

Diesel has to be above a certain temperature before it gives off enough vapors to go boom, usually 130 or 135 F.
So the answer is no, diesel shouldn't be a concern.

[Zeke]

I put the can on the ground next to the pump. Why?

Not to be safe. To not smell spilled gas.

I see gardeners filling cans and equipment every day on the bed. No one says anything.

[Hugh R]

Saw some guys filling six 55 gallon drum on the back of a pickup truck once. I called the CHP.

[sammyg2]

Here's one I use in my safely meetings when someone says "we've done it like that for years and no one's gotten hurt ".


In the movie The Magnificent Seven, Steve McQueen's character talked about a guy who jumped off a 10 story building.
On the way down people at every floor heard him say ... so far so good ....