Selling a non smog compliant car

[Zeke]

I bought my Carrera from a young attorney with the understanding that I was buying as is, where is. This was all in CA. A dealer can't sell like that, but a private seller can. I put a cat on it and it smogged each time I needed it to even with bad valve guides. It even had good numbers.

The DMV doesn't care how you do it as long as it gets done within 30 days of the date of sale. If the smog was due and didn't get done and you buy a car with out of date tags, you really can't drive it unless you want to pay the penalties. But between smog dates any sale will work.

That's not what the law says, it's just how it works. Sell the car as ism where is on a bill of sale. If the new owner doesn't get it registered, the DMV will go after him. How do I know that? Well, that also happened to me on a car I didn't register, only insured. A while after I sold it and transferred the pink from the owner before me to the new owner, I got a letter from the DMV for the use tax. I didn't have the car that long but I ended up paying the use tax.

The seller to me had turned in my info even though he didn't have much of it and the deal was all cash. He was a cop.

[ninelevenick]

Much great advice.

Tobra, you may have convinced me to keep it.

Zeke, I'm confused. Was the PO an attorney or a cop?

[jyl]

Hypothetically, can't you sell a non-smog car as a non-operational parts vehicle?

Suppose I buy a non-running parts car. Fix it so it runs. Now can I make the seller responsible for getting what he sold as a parts carcass to pass smog?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by jyl

Hypothetically, can't you sell a non-smog car as a non-operational parts vehicle?

Suppose I buy a non-running parts car. Fix it so it runs. Now can I make the seller responsible for getting what he sold as a parts carcass to pass smog?

In Ca, you can sell a non-smog car as non-operational and if you get the non-op cert, then the buyer cannot come back to you and make you responsible. You can do the same with a bill of sale, as mentioned above, but technically, the DMV can ignore the "as is" clause if they want to though, as Zeke pointed out, they seldom do. Selling a car with a non-op puts the burden on the buyer if and when he tries to make the car road worthy.

As for Zeke's post, Snipernick, he is talking about two different cars. The car he sold without registering is not the one he bought from the young attorney. The DMV caught him because the seller (a cop) filed the release form to the DMV when he sold the car to Zeke. The release form has the car info and sales info as well as name and address of buyer and it frees the seller from any liability (as well as future registration fees) should the car not be registered in Ca. by the new owner. The seller remains the last registered owner on record until the car is re-registered by someone else, but his liability for the car is waived. Cop or not, it is in a seller's best interest to file the release form as soon as the car is sold.

Case in point. I sold one of my Porsches to a German fellow who took it to Germany. I had him fill out the release form, but since the car was leaving the country I never sent it in. Two years later, I got a letter from the DMV demanding late registration fees and a threat to prevent any registration of any car I owned until it was paid. I sent them a copy of the release form and all was good.

[ninelevenick]

Thanks for clarifying, ossiblue. Way to go keeping proper documentation after you sold your car out of country. Saved you a lot of hassle for sure.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

In Ca, you can sell a non-smog car as non-operational and if you get the non-op cert, then the buyer cannot come back to you and make you responsible. You can do the same with a bill of sale, as mentioned above, but technically, the DMV can ignore the "as is" clause if they want to though, as Zeke pointed out, they seldom do. Selling a car with a non-op puts the burden on the buyer if and when he tries to make the car road worthy.

I may be wrong, but I don't agree with this. The purpose of filing non-op is so you don't have to pay registration fees if the car is not being operated on the streets. It's not some sort of certification that the car is not smog-legal, etc.

It's is completely legal for a private party to sell a car that is not smog-legal in CA, but it should be disclosed in writing and signed by the buyer. The seller can file a Notice of Release of Liability with CA (it should be done online) and keep a copy. The problem is the title will never transfer to the buyer until he passes a smog inspection and completes the transfer with the DMV. So the seller may continue to get notices from the DMV, but can kill them by providing proof the Notice of Release of Liability was filed.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Snipernick

Much great advice.

Tobra, you may have convinced me to keep it.

Zeke, I'm confused. Was the PO an attorney or a cop?

2 different cars. 2 different sellers.

Steve, I think you're both right. I've never personally been involved with anyone selling a car with a non-op but if that person did and the buyer did the transfer (pink slip), he could continue the repairs but not drive or register the car. Getting the non-op that is paid up to date would save a lot of penalties that are otherwise hard to avoid.

[scottmandue]

I was thinking non-op too but not sure what the time frame would be on doing that (how long it takes to process a non-op)

[Synchro Joe]

In California, you can't disclaim the car's failure to pass the smog requirements with an "as is" or "smog is the buyer's responsibility. Contracts that are against public policy (ex: contracts that try to go around consumer protection statutes are void as a matter of law. You'll end up in court (small claims or limited civil litigation) and, because the contract is void, you'll lose and the buyer will get money damages or the court will unwind the transaction and everyone will go back to where they were before.
However, a loophole seems to exist if the car is sold and then registered as non-operational by the buyer. After all, how would you expect a car that may be non-op due to a failed engine/trans to be smogged? The buyer would then have to be responsible for the smog if they decided to change the status to operational. There's nothing I found in the rules about this, but I it may work internally as far as in the DMV computers. Either that or simply change your current status to 'non-operational' if you can with DMV in betweeen registration cycles and note that on a bill of sale to prevent potential legal hassles later on.

[Synchro Joe]

From California Bureau of Automotive Repairs (BAR) Site:
When a used vehicle is sold in California, the seller is legally responsible for making sure that the vehicle's emission (smog) control equipment complies with state requirements. There is no provision in the law allowing a seller to sell a vehicle "as is." The buyer must submit the certificate of compliance (smog certificate) to the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) when transferring registration of the vehicle. Without the smog certificate, the transfer of ownership cannot be completed. In private party transactions, the seller must provide the buyer with a proof of smog certification prior to the transfer of ownership. A vehicle that has not been issued a smog certification cannot be registered. A Limited Parts Exemption may be issued if an emission control part was not available at the time of inspection. Although a limited parts exemption may be issued on a change-of-ownership smog inspection, the vehicle must pass all other aspects of the Smog Check. Maybe look into the limited parts exemption if only a 'few' smog items are not installed?
Smog Equipment Requirements for Used Vehicles (A Guide for the Used Car Buyer)

Just selling it out state seems simpler, at least DMV wise.