P.A.R.F. - do we still need it?

[island911]

Bravo finstone! Bravo Jim Richards!

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I enjoy a good polite discourse, and have learned quite a bit from my fellow Pelicans over the years. But there are certain topics and people that become inflammatory too quickly. There are also individuals who when unable to defend their position with facts instead resort to throwing stones. I grew out of that a long time ago.

Funny, I mostly stay out of OT for the reasons you just gave. g'head, search "Windows" here and see the childish, inflammatory knee-jerk posts of the petulant OT-camper Apple fanboys.

It's odd, but the majority of posters in PAR OT don't get all wound up like the (few) fragile OT-campers here. Sure, PAR-capers glibly throw about digs and counter points, but I rarely get the feeling that they are coming completely unhinged like some here do.

meh, as the PAR OT disclaimer reads - have thin-skin? it's not for you.

[72doug2,2S]

I think it was a good idea and still is. What was the event which lead to its creation? When did it start up?

[genrex]

Well, you know the old saying... people get bent out of shape when they're not getting enough sex. I think that's what *really* started it... not enough sex, and then someone said "neener neener neener" and then things got out of hand so to speak... but there's no way to actually prove that, of course.

__

[Steve Carlton]

I think you started it.

[genrex]

Well, I had a little role under the table, but it was a union job and that's all they had left. You know those senior union guys get all the good roles...

Oops, gettin' parfy.

__

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you are seeking pearls...sometimes you must dive pretty deep. They aren't often found floating on the surface.

Yeah, but what if diving in poo isn't your thing?

Yes we need PARF

[island911]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

I think it was a good idea and still is. What was the event which lead to its creation? When did it start up?

I can tell you how OT was formed.

Back in 2002 this place was called Off Topic Rants

That's right - Rants! --the garbage bin for tech posts gone awry.

Then this guy called island911 lobbied Wayne to change it to something less nasty. see:Hey Wayne; How 'bout a change. . .

From there, a few of us - a bit bored with the repeating tech stuff- started discussions about everything else. Even tabs -as provocative as ever- was a big help in keeping the OT ball rolling.

Years go by, and another split happened. One place for nuanced discussions on political gamesmanship, and regular OT for theme and variation of butt-shots and computer financing schemes. --just don't say it's a WINdows computer. -that's the around here.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I would like to implore people like Baz, the thread starter, to just let it go. PARF exists. If you want to go there, go there. If you don't, don't. Full stop.

I feel the same way about the Boxster forum.

[scottmandue]

When I started here there was no PARF.

I was posting to the 944 BBS to get ideas about my new to me Porsche.

Someone mentioned long spoons and it got kicked to OT... and that was my demise.

Originally there was very little political or religious posted here.

But in recent years the human race has decided everything needs to have a political spin on it.

I posted on OT asking if anyone could recommend a Christian BBS a while back... absolutely no religious content, but actually looking for direction to some place to share my religious beliefs online (and not bother the haters here).

I got several helpful posts, a few jokes, and a few hatefully.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I would like to implore people like Baz, the thread starter, to just let it go. PARF exists. If you want to go there, go there. If you don't, don't. Full stop.

That is just crazy talk!!!

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

I feel the same way about the Boxster forum.

It must be rough dealing with all those hair dressers and interior designers.

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by island911

Years go by, and another split happened. One place for nuanced discussions on political gamesmanship, and regular OT for theme and variation of butt-shots and computer financing schemes. --just don't say it's a WINdows computer. -that's the around here.

No doubt I remember it happened, I just forget when. Who was president when it first appeared? What year?

[hardflex]

If you're looking for a reason to keep PARF, now is not a good time to visit and look for it's good points.

It's like Wayne through a get together at his place, many interesting and likeable people came and enjoyed the visit. Then the party crashers came and started hurling insults and obscenities at Wayne's guests so they went home, and the crashers stayed.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

No doubt I remember it happened, I just forget when. Who was president when it first appeared? What year?

Bush's fault.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I don't understand why we even have these periodic threads about whether to keep PARF as is or bring it back to PPOT. I am very happy with the status quo. PPOT is a pleasant forum.

fintstone is right, we do end up taking a shot at the PARFers in our replies to this thread (mine included). Sorry about that.

I would like to implore people like Baz, the thread starter, to just let it go. PARF exists. If you want to go there, go there. If you don't, don't. Full stop.

Jim, I agree and there have been some great comments on why PARF should remain. I believe it should. Contrary to the generalized view of PARF, I have had some good exchanges there and have actually appreciated some differing opinions and learned a thing or two.

There seems to be a cadre of individuals who just infect many threads once they get started. Like some here have stated in not going to PARF, I do a similar thing when things go south in a thread. Also the PM to clarify points helps in a number of ways: as getting to know someone on a more detailed basis.

Baz is actually a good PARFer as his persona (and others like him) can calm things down and actually kill an infected thread.

The new banning is still very tolerant of behavior that is a detriment to Pelican as a whole but given time it is going to have the same impact of culling out the most serious disrupters.

My observation is that there seems to exist some folks who, IMHO, are hell bent to get PARF killed. I mean who can blame Wayne (the owner of this business) and the Mods for just getting sick of it all. But even with that understandable position I cannot lose the feeling that some folks who are not allowed free reign to just piss people off with their behavior; have the motive to kill the site for their own selfish and perverse reasons. They just want to see what they can achieve.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Bush's fault.

this thread is useless without pics LOL

[Danimal16]

I would add Dottore and Cloggie to that group. I appreciate the posts by those not only from other sections of the USA but those from other Countries, now that may not seem like much but to me it is one of the pearls in the pile.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Jim, you nailed it.

Politics and religion are messy things but interesting as well. The fact is there are many extremely intelligent, diverse and thought-provoking folks on PARF, and there used to be a lot more. The depth and breadth of knowledge is striking. But most have left because of 10 or so lowest common denominator folks who seem to have nothing better to do than snipe and ruin threads. I have long wanted a super-PARF, that is everyone gets to participate but there is a one strike you are out rule, at which time you can can go play in regular PARF. Both Todd and Zoltan are more than up to the task.

I don't think many here realize the treasure we have on PARF mostly because it's covered up with raw sewage. I have learned a lot over the years, shifted political positions both left and right, and had the opportunity to better understand "the other side."

A super-PARF with Fintstone, Rikao4, wdfifteen, Foxpaws, jcommin, mreid, nostatic, TABS, jyl, stomachmonkey, hardflex, Taz's Master, Seahawk, MRM, 70SAATMan Noah930, Esel Mann, Hugh R, VaSteve, dan88911, Tobra, Danimal16 and others would be like a real-time online version of The Economist with ever evolving content. That would be a great read.

[Scooter]

You can blame me (at least partially) for PARF. I was a strong instigator/supporter of separating the two. I was very tired of the whole front page of OT being about politics and religion. I don't know what PARF is like now, because I don't go there, but these types of threads were very heated and nasty back in the day, so I personally had no interest in them. Regardless of the way you feel about PARF, it serves its purpose quite well and those that want to read that type of content have a great forum to participate. Off topic is a much better place now without PARF type threads monopolizing the front page.

I don't really understand this issue here. Nobody is being disenfranchised in any way. Anybody that wants to view a PARF thread can do so easily by clicking on the link. It is not difficult to do. By having separate pages, we have more diverse subjects on the front page on any given day. The more forums available, the more efficient it is for the reader to view the topics they want to read. We have two great forums for their specific purpose...we should not only embrace this, but celebrate the fact that Pelican provides this great service.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by island911

Bravo finstone! Bravo Jim Richards!Funny, I mostly stay out of OT for the reasons you just gave. g'head, search "Windows" here and see the childish, inflammatory knee-jerk posts of the petulant OT-camper Apple fanboys.

It's odd, but the majority of posters in PAR OT don't get all wound up like the (few) fragile OT-campers here. Sure, PAR-capers glibly throw about digs and counter points, but I rarely get the feeling that they are coming completely unhinged like some here do.

meh, as the PAR OT disclaimer reads - have thin-skin? it's not for you.

PARF sometimes requires the skill to remain calm in bloody water!

[Crowbob]

I think all that technical stuff is off topic.