P.A.R.F. - do we still need it?

[porsche4life]

Fint... You are missing the point that some are trying to make. We don't care that the crap goes on over there, the issue lies in the guys who drag it over here. I have no problem with guys like you and hugh and james, etc who understand civil discourse and when and where to call a snake a snake...

It would be like if every day you came home and yelled at your wife because you where mad about something that happened at work. Eventually she would start telling you to quit your job. Similar situation, we are just postulating whether or not getting rid of the source of the problem would take care of the problem over here.

And like I said in my first post, its a necessary evil, because we've seen that it won't work the other way.

[enzo1]

[manbridge 74]

Parf has it's purpose.
It's not for everyone.
It can learn one on how to take a blow without blowing up.
It is not for unthinking wimps, whiners or the thin skinned.

[imcarthur]

Parf works. I know that it has been a major source of frustration for the mods to police it, but it works to contain the volatile subjects & those that want to discuss them. I would sometimes like to discuss various topics in there but I restrain myself because of the inevitable vitriol of a few posters. Life is too short to get that worked up over the Internets.

And Baz, Parf was created 09-14-2008, 06:39 PM according to the time of Wayne's post. You will note that 2008 was an election year . . . it was not a coincidence.

Ian

[fintstone]

While I agree that folks get a bit overwrought in PARF sometimes...and in OT as well, I believe it unseemly to discuss the folks that post in PARF in the OT forum...And this happens a bit too often for my taste. Frankly, I get beat up a lot in PARF because the liberals know I am rather conservative and some of the more conservative posters have somehow decided I am a liberal. That said, I welcome a good debate...and certainly appreciate the folks that have posted positively here regarding some if us who post there and PARF in general.

I would hate to see an appearance of a consensus regarding the elimination of PARF to influence Wayne to toss out the proverbial "baby with the bath water."

I realize that it is often said that " no one ever changes their mind based on what is posted in PARF." I would disagree. I have had many PMs from posters over the years (some who were active in the argument and some who were just observers) who claimed I changed their opinion on a matter, influenced them, or at least provided new insight to them. In fact, several of my most heated debates have been with folks that posted positive remarks about me in this very thread (good guys all). Admittedly, I have also had death threats from men and professed interest in a personal physical relationship from women (more than once)...at least they claimed to be women (you never know on the internet).

I think that the occasional situation that gets a bit out of hand is a fair price for the benefit of such a forum. The moderators are cracking down a bit (which is welcome) and any seepage into OT is easily handled by sending it right back to PARF as we do now.

[manbridge 74]

I've never recieved one single venemous PM. Ever.

Obviously, I could stand to do better.

[VaSteve]

From the shores of beautiful Ban Island and beyond...

That's a religious post Jim. PARF!

[fintstone]

Manbridge 74

When I was in the service and became an NCO...my boss pointed out some graffiti on the bathroom wall and told me..."if they aren't writing negative crap about you on the bathroom wall...you just aren't doing your job"...remember the more we made the troops sweat in peacetime...the less likely they were to bleed in wartime.

Obviously you need to strengthen your argument a bit.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

That's a religious post Jim. PARF!

Ban me! Ban me!

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Manbridge 74

When I was in the service and became an NCO...my boss pointed out some graffiti on the bathroom wall and told me..."if they aren't writing negative crap about you on the bathroom wall...you just aren't doing your job"...remember the more we made the troops sweat in peacetime...the less likely they were to bleed in wartime.

Obviously you need to strengthen your argument a bit.

I am always learning, trying and (hopefully) improving.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Why would Wayne keep PARF? Because he is an incredibly smart man...and it is good business. Look at the post counts for people who spend time on PARF. Hits are advertising and potential sales. As long as he feels it helps his business more than hurts it...it will endure (unless we become too annoying).

Wayne is getting tired of the rhetoric as well....

"Done. I'm about ready to shut down the whole OT forum here.
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, CEO, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:"


Last post in the locked thread in PARF.

And again, if one looks at page 2 of PARF, you get to see why it was so annoying to see the political thread titles in OT. One can avoid looking into the threads that are may be offensive to one, but you cannot avoid looking at the thread titles. They can and are just as annoying as the content of the threads themselves.

The one thing that is almost guaranteed in every PARF thread, is a couple of people resorting to name calling and personal attacks. If one can't see that, they really need to get their eyes checked. That just does not happen on a routine basis with the threads in OT.

As for the Stijn thread, look how long it has lasted! Sure, there is a core group that keeps it alive, but many others have wandered through. Is there ever any name calling, bashing, whatever, that is serious? I'd say never! It's actually a fine example of how a diverse group of people can get together and have a good time, vent personal frustrations, even have a meaningful conversation, without bringing up politics or religion. - Okay, it does pop up from time to time, but it always seems to be a comment on something else and never gets out of hand. I think those in the Stijn thread are very respectful to keep those two subjects out.

If PARF was merged back into OT, I'd log out for good. Again, it has everything to do with seeing the thread titles and the volume of them that were on page one of OT pre-PARF.

[Noah930]

Wow. Scary that the Stijn thread is considered a model of model behavior.

[Baz]

Some very good responses to my question.

Thanks everyone - good to have an honest discussion without the incivility so prevalent in PARF.

There's something about the subject of politics that brings out the worst in some folks........and I guess that's the bottom line.

I do appreciate the opportunity to connect with the Pelican community and am grateful to Wayne and our wonderful moderators who make it all possible.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by kach22i

I think there are some who want PARF killed so they can infect the OT section with their brand of insanity.

Keep the cage locked, else they have no where else to go.

It's like having a strip club on the bad side of town along the rail road tracks. It's there but you don't have to go in, you don't even have to drive by.

Kach, that is well put.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by slodave

...The one thing that is almost guaranteed in every PARF thread, is a couple of people resorting to name calling and personal attacks. If one can't see that, they really need to get their eyes checked. That just does not happen on a routine basis with the threads in OT...

...If PARF was merged back into OT, I'd log out for good. Again, it has everything to do with seeing the thread titles and the volume of them that were on page one of OT pre-PARF.

While I can understand why some might not like some of the silliness in PARF..I see it as not much different than this thread.

One would never consider banning driving on the freeway for everyone...just because some clowns text while driving. You punish those guys and get them off the road. Not everyone else.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

I've never recieved one single venemous PM. Ever.

Obviously, I could stand to do better.

Ya ain't trying hard enough!

[slodave]

Originally Posted by fintstone

While I can understand why some might not like some of the silliness in PARF..I see it as not much different than this thread.

One would never consider banning driving on the freeway for everyone...just because some clowns text while driving. You punish those guys and get them off the road. Not everyone else.

Silliness? Now that's just silly!

Look at the list of those that have been banned recently in PARF...

Since the start of Nov., 4 people have been sent to Ban Island! Name calling and personal attacks. There was that other list that showed the last few months. A lot of people went on vacation! And for what? Mostly name calling and personal attacks.

That just does not happen very often it OT. I can't even remember the last time someone was banned in OT (other than spammers) - I know there have been some over the years.

The really sad thing, is that if the PARF threads were to happen face to face, I'm sure they would be a lot more civil. I'm sure the discussion would get heated. It's too bad a bunch of adults have to get so nasty from behind there keyboards.

[Crowbob]

OK i'll buy in to this KumBaya Thing.

Shaun's short llst really hurt my feelings. I had made a conscious decision to NOT fall for the juvenile name-calling and stuff. And have failed occasionally, I admit.

All the while I've tried to elevate the discussion and I don't even get an honorablre mention? Rika alluded to this injustice, for which I am grateful, but jeeze.

OTOH, my steatlh style of pusuasion seems to have had at least a modicum of success.

Some hard core opponents have agreed with me to my utmost delight.

Yet, what good is it to try to change things for the better and not get credit for it?

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

---snip---

Yet, what good is it to try to change things for the better and not get credit for it?

The short answer is - you know - and that is and always will be enough.

To thine own self be true.

Carry on Bob!

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

There are occasionally interesting discussions that last a page or two before the regulars start throwing poo at each other...

+1 Once the poo starts I'll just fade away and let the spitting contestants go on without me.

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

I say make a sticky over there with the names and reason for being banned.

+1 Sometimes no specific reason is given. I was given one trip in 10 years of posting (right around the time a moderator decided to become militant with banning) but when PM'd the mod and asked what I specifically did that crossed the line (so as to know how to avoid the offense in the future) I was told to just let it go.