extending natural gas line to detached garage- help

rfuerst911sc · 12-01-2013, 02:51 AM

Our home has natural gas piped to it and most of our appliances use it. We have a detached three car garage and I'm thinking about adding heat/AC. So one option for heat is vented gas heaters hung from the ceiling. There is a spot in the basement of the house that looks ideal to add a tee and extend the line from that point. The run would have to be about 70 to 80 feet to reach the garage. Any problems having the line extended ? Is this still done with black iron pipe ? Obviously it would have to be buried. I would have this done not a DIY project. Anyone out there done similar ? Any issues ? Any idea aprox. how much it would cost ? I'm just kicking around ideas, I could also go propane or electric just seeing what others have done.

K9Torro · 12-01-2013, 03:31 AM

I use propane with a 25 pound bottle which I have to refill at a local hardware store but not very often. I used kerosene for several years as well but it got really expensive an the smell is an acquired taste I could stand it but some of my buddies thought I was crazy. Our winters here are not that bad and not that long so it does not take much.

If you are going to do the extension see if your gas provider would do it for you they may charge you but it should not be to much.

Todd

billybek · billybek's Garage

Usually the underground is via plastic pipe with steel pipe legs that emerge from the ground.
The old school way was to wrap black iron pipe with an over wrap of tar or something like it.

Depth of the trench will depend on what goes over the run of pipe and your local code.

I would second the idea of asking your gas provider for a price before going out shopping or doing it yourself.

I had mine manufactured to measure and needed to have a buddy with a gas ticket to come in to pull permit. I didn't save much money by doing it this way and it was a pile of work.
I burnt through the most of a flat of beer trenching!

cairns · 12-01-2013, 06:56 AM

Had the same thing done. Talk to your gas company. We needed a larger diameter pipe and a new regulator due to the length of the run. I wouldn't do this myself.

mattdavis11 · 12-01-2013, 07:18 AM

I haven't done it, but my parents house had a line run to the green house when built. It was about a 60ft run from the house. That was 1968.

It had valves at both ends, one at the heater and one at the house, so you do need to be mindful of that.

It was galvanized pipe, you might even want to go so far as to protect the pipe with pvc or other from the outside elements.

Another option could be that you tee off the line, install a valve off the T, add a couple of quick connects, then run a hose above ground that you can simply roll up when not needed. I wouldn't recommend that if traffic is heavy in the area of the run.

David · David's Garage

Since you're in Georgia, I recommend getting a mini-split AC unit that's also a heat pump. I have a 2 ton unit in my 900 sqft garage and it works great. You would need 220V power but no gas.

bell · bell's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Another option could be that you tee off the line, install a valve off the T, add a couple of quick connects, then run a hose above ground that you can simply roll up when not needed. I wouldn't recommend that if traffic is heavy in the area of the run.

This sounds like a very bad idea.......

Having grew up in the Midwest AND in our small town one Thanksgiving in the 80s we had many many houses blow up due to a single faulty valve, it was National news...... point is, leave natural gas lines to the pros.....

Danny_Ocean · 12-01-2013, 08:27 AM

Do not use galvanized pipe for gas. Black iron pipe was used for years, but the new standard direct bury pipe appears to be some sort of poly-coated steel (aluminum?)...it's lightweight and semi-flexible. I don't know its' trade name, but a visit to your local plumbing supply house will reveal it. Your local code will determine depth of trenching. If you want to save money, and aren't experienced (gas is just as dangerous as electric for amateurs), trench/lay pipe yourself, then hire a plumber to do the final leak testing & hook-ups.

Danny_Ocean · 12-01-2013, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bell

this sounds like a very bad idea.......

very!

wdfifteen · wdfifteen's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Since you're in Georgia, I recommend getting a mini-split AC unit that's also a heat pump. I have a 2 ton unit in my 900 sqft garage and it works great. You would need 220V power but no gas.

I can't answer you original question, but have you considered the above? Unless there are extenuating circumstances, this sounds like a winner of an idea.

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

Unless the garage is really well insulated and sealed against air leakage, overhead heaters are worthless. Even with a fan blowing the heat, you'll be burning up right in front of the thing but 10 feet away you can ice skate. You need to get the heat source down low as possible.

vonsmog · 12-01-2013, 08:41 AM

I ran plastic gas line out to my 1250sq./ft/ shop 65 ft. when I built it. I did it myself, but then I did work at one time for the gas company as summer help while in college. Installed gas lines in new tracks and did repairs, so I have a grasp on what to do right and what is wrong. Not a hard job to do, just need to do it right and use the right parts when jumping from plastic to black iron pipe. And don't be afraid to use shutoffs, as they are cheap.

johnsjmc · 10:43 AM

I did this last year to run gas to my detached garage. Here code calls for 24 inch depth.
I used 1 inch yellow poly gas line with factory made steel risers. If using poly you also need a tracer wire buried with it to allow locating it if needed.
The run was just short of 100ft. Since you are connected downstream from the regulator and meter there are code book charts re size and btu load at the far end. I did oversize because of length of run and maybe I,ll have a hot tub out back sometime.
A shutoff is required before it enters the garage and another at the ceiling hung heater. A good idea to add another at the house but not actually needed as the connection was at the meter outside , ( it would be needed if the tap was made inside.)
The line cost about $100 and the 2 risers were about $75 each. I paid a backhoe about 3 hours to bury and a gas fitter charged $75 to pressure test it and tag it as passed. I made all the connections myself but I am not licensed for gas piping so I wanted it tested and tagged.
A plumber had quoted me $1800 for the whole works including the heater, so buying the parts and sub ing the digging etc saved me about $600.
All together maybe $600. My unit heater is 40,000 btu and cost an additional $5-600.
Code here also requires any open flame in a garage to be 8 ft above the floor of a garage because flammable vapours are usually heavier than air and fill the garage from the floor up.
If I lived in Georgia I second the suggestion about looking into a small heat pump. There are wall hung units from Mitsbishi I think with seer ratings over 20. You likely have more need of summer AC and heat than I would here in Canada near Detroit.
Total about $1200 to add a line and heater to the garage ,I already had 60 A 220 v. in another trench done years earlier

rfuerst911sc · 12-01-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I can't answer you original question, but have you considered the above? Unless there are extenuating circumstances, this sounds like a winner of an idea.

Yes a mini split is in the picture I am exploring all options. Seeing that I need AC more than I need heat this may be the way to go. I still have five open slots in my electrical service for the garage so running a dedicated 220v line should not be an issue.

BGCarrera32 · 11:13 AM

If you have black iron pipe in the basement you very likely have the older 1/4 psi gas metering. I am assuming none of your appliances have a pressure reducing regulator- they look like the top of the Starship Enterprise and are about 4" in diameter where the gas tap is for the appliance. If you have those than you probably have the newer 2 psi gas metering which will make things easier. The way to cost effectively run piping out to the garage over that distance is to use 2 psi gas metering. The higher pressure allows you to push an adequate amount of fuel out to the shop which will calculated based on the BTU's/hr of fuel your furnace will consume. I would contact your gas company or a contractor to determine the best way to set it up. You need to run the correct size tubing as each consecutive smaller size will impact pressure drop across the run and limit the amount of natural gas available.

It is actually pretty easy but you don't want to run the the wrong size tubing as over 70 or so feet this will be several hundred bucks to do it correctly.

mikesride · mikesride's Garage

Totally a DIY friendly project, have the gas company come in and inspect and sign off
your work for insurance purposes. Around here the line only needs to be trenched down 3 feet. Rent a walk behind trencher and be done with it in an afternoon.

johnsjmc · 12-01-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesride

Totally a DIY friendly project, have the gas company come in and inspect and sign off
your work for insurance purposes. Around here the line only needs to be trenched down 3 feet. Rent a walk behind trencher and be done with it in an afternoon.

Not legally if you are in Ontario. TSSA says you must be licensed to install a gas line.
Functionally you can and get a licensed entity to test and tag it BUT theoretically you are not allowed to do it.
I am a licensed class A mechanic in Ont and have license and experience with fuel lines,propane cars etc BUT technically I am restricted from installing a residential gas service line.

johnsjmc · 12-01-2013, 12:55 PM

Also looking on Ebay a 20,000 btu mini split Ac/heat pump is about the same price as a gas line installed. I think that,s the best way to do it in a southern state like Georgia

rfuerst911sc · 12-01-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

Also looking on Ebay a 20,000 btu mini split Ac/heat pump is about the same price as a gas line installed. I think that,s the best way to do it in a southern state like Georgia

I just went on Craigs list and found someone selling used Sanyo mini splits for $250.00 each. They have 1.5 , 2 and 3 ton units being removed from some building. I just sent an email but if I can get two for 500.00 I'll go that route. We'll see.