Another water heater thread!

[GH85Carrera]

I took some pics of my current water heater.



This is the current unit. It is in a little closet that has its own door. This is out in the garage.



Obviously a 40 gallon tank. 35.5K BTU and we keep the temp on about 1/3 of the scale. It could get a LOT hotter. We don't run out of hot water.

Now to find a local source for a AO Smith water heater. So far they all want to sell only to a plumber.

[creaturecat]

Just saying:
Our Rinnai started leaking when it was 3 years old.
The exchanger was replaced under warranty.
Trouble was that labour not covered - 700 bucks to install.

[tadink]

I would be remiss to not suggest using a solar hot water system to pre-heat your feed water to the existing hot water heater. Full Disclosure - I'm in that business, however, there is nothing quite as nice as taking a hot shower knowing that you did not burn any fuel to make the water hot!!

Agree on the recirc pumps as well - fresh water is one of our most precious commodities, running it down the drain while waiting for the hot water to show up is pure waste.

Happy to go into more details if anyone wants....

best

td

[look 171]

Originally Posted by tadink

I would be remiss to not suggest using a solar hot water system to pre-heat your feed water to the existing hot water heater. Full Disclosure - I'm in that business, however, there is nothing quite as nice as taking a hot shower knowing that you did not burn any fuel to make the water hot!!

Agree on the recirc pumps as well - fresh water is one of our most precious commodities, running it down the drain while waiting for the hot water to show up is pure waste.

Happy to go into more details if anyone wants....

best

td

As a contractor who build all sort of weird siht for people, I must ask how much benefit, where and when is the return in investment for my clients?

I forgot to add this:

Not busting your chops here, but knowing is one thing, but at what cost. As far as recirc. pumps are concern, I advise against it at times (talking myself out of a job) because the financial benefit does not add up. I can't suggest tearing out walls, installation return pipes, running electrical then buttoning everything just to speed up the delivery of hot water. I wouldn't do that to people. They can wait another 30 seconds for that hot water. It not worth $1000 bucks of work. if they are doing a full remodel, then I would suggest it for sure.

[rfuerst911sc]

I was in Lowes the other day and they had on display Jacuzzi brand tankless gas water heaters for $849.00. Just from reading the package they are designed as whole house. I thought that price was not too bad but have no idea about the quality.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by look 171

As a contractor who build all sort of weird siht for people, I must ask how much benefit, where and when is the return in investment for my clients?

I forgot to add this:

Not busting your chops here, but knowing is one thing, but at what cost. As far as recirc. pumps are concern, I advise against it at times (talking myself out of a job) because the financial benefit does not add up. I can't suggest tearing out walls, installation return pipes, running electrical then buttoning everything just to speed up the delivery of hot water. I wouldn't do that to people. They can wait another 30 seconds for that hot water. It not worth $1000 bucks of work. if they are doing a full remodel, then I would suggest it for sure.

Yeah, I'm on the fence about recirculation. Should've had the tankless water heater located much closer the water is needed. Live and learn.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Yeah, I'm on the fence about recirculation. Should've had the tankless water heater located much closer the water is needed. Live and learn.

A single pipe is very cheap to run (plan for the future) when everything is out during the remodel. This is not where you want to save money.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

I was in Lowes the other day and they had on display Jacuzzi brand tankless gas water heaters for $849.00. Just from reading the package they are designed as whole house. I thought that price was not too bad but have no idea about the quality.

Because with that. A simple 20 gallon tank heater will run the whole house also, but most of us know better then that. Tankless heaters are size according to flow rate. count how many outlets (1.6GPM) and size the heater accordingly. I normally ovedr estimate that number a little more then most out there. Overbuilding is my middle name. People appreciate that in the long run.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by look 171

A single pipe is very cheap to run (plan for the future) when everything is out during the remodel. This is not where you want to save money.

I agree.

[tadink]

"30 seconds to wait for hot water" may not sound like much, but when you are on a well, in a record low rainfall area, and you add up the amount of water that you are dumping into a septic system with no benefit, the 'economic savings' becomes secondary. As a simple measure, put a bucket under that '30 sec's of water' to get a feeling for how much it is....and then multiply by the number of times you do that per day and then by 365. I think the volume of wasted water will be staggering!

Record low rainfall area = all of CA in 2013. Running out of fresh water in either NorCal or SoCal may be a pretty big deal....for some.

A recirc pump might make some sense in applications such as these.....as might 'grey water' diversion from the septic tank into the garden area. We are investigating both at this time for the above mentioned reasons. And we've installed Solar Hot Water for the pre-heat on the propane fired hot water heaters, reducing our propane consumption dramatically.

In many areas with abundant water and 'free' natural gas, these sort of measures might not make 'economic' sense, even though it is probably the right thing to do.

I don't think 'recirc' and 'tankless' are ever used effectively together....better to mount the tankless near where the water will be consumed.

two cents worth of my opinions.....YMMV

cheers for the holiday season!!

td

[GH85Carrera]

Around here the water is mostly from man made lakes and run-off water. It goes back to the sewer system and continues on down stream. I just interrupted it's flow after it was run through the water system and the sewer system. It did not get destroyed in a black hole. It just continued downstream to the Mississippi and out to the ocean. Several other cities will process that same water several times before the ocean evaporates it and it falls as rain to begin the cycle again.

Natural gas is cheap and we produce a lot of it locally.

I am still trying to find what model of AO Smith water heater to get and a source to buy it. The local plumbing companies want to deal with a plumber.

[Kraftwerk]

The ideal situation would be to have two smaller instant-on water heaters in the house one in the kitchen and one located directly next to the shower bath area. This will keep your water /waste usage to a min.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

The ideal situation would be to have two smaller instant-on water heaters in the house one in the kitchen and one located directly next to the shower bath area. This will keep your water /waste usage to a min.

That might be ideal if we were building a new home and we were in our 20s. In our existing home that would have about a 100 year payback or more. Waste water volume is just not an issue for us. We have a water bill that is the minimum amount every month. I could use more water for the very same price.

I just want a reasonably efficient quality water that will not need to be replaced for 20 years or until the year 2034.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

That might be ideal if we were building a new home and we were in our 20s. In our existing home that would have about a 100 year payback or more. Waste water volume is just not an issue for us. We have a water bill that is the minimum amount every month. I could use more water for the very same price.

I just want a reasonably efficient quality water that will not need to be replaced for 20 years or until the year 2034.

New water heaters go south in about 10 -14 years now. Sorry to bust your bubble. Forget about the tankless, pump, solar and all that good stuff. Just replace the existing heater with another one just like it. I like AO SMith, that's what I would do unless you need to have the space back inside the house.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Yeah, I'm on the fence about recirculation. Should've had the tankless water heater located much closer the water is needed. Live and learn.

Jim,

Depending on how the new pipes are run, hot water delivery may surprise you to the Kitchen. No one knows how the old pipes are snaked around under the slab. It could have been a much longer run under there.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by look 171

Jim,

Depending on how the new pipes are run, hot water delivery may surprise you to the Kitchen. No one knows how the old pipes are snaked around under the slab. It could have been a much longer run under there.

Excellent point! We're looking forward to seeing all the exciting changes to our place when we come out next time. Merry Christmas to you and your family!

[smg911]

Originally Posted by azasadny

We have a 4 year old GE "Smartwater" 50 gallon natural gas water heater, do not by a GE water heater, they are garbage,,,

I totally agree. The GE smartwater 50 gas WH (made by Rheem) that Home Depot sells is a piece of crap. I recently installed one for a friend
and it didn't work. Had to remove it drive back to HD and get another one. Installed the second one and a month and a half later it stopped working. Removed it and went to Lowe's and purchased a Whirlpool. So far so good.

Also had very bad luck with A O Smith 50 gal. electric water heaters in my home. The first one leaked after 4 years 3 months. The second one lasted 3 years 2 months. The third one lasted 2 years 2 months and the forth one lasted exactly 1 year. All 4 of them leaked water. Junk!!!! The only reason I kept using AO Smith is because they were under warranty. When the forth one went bad the 9 year warranty had expired so I went to Lowe's and purchased a Whirlpool. A O Smith told me it was because I have a water softener.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Excellent point! We're looking forward to seeing all the exciting changes to our place when we come out next time. Merry Christmas to you and your family!

Merry Christmas to you guy also.

Must go back to work now or else, nuttin's gonna get done.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by smg911

I totally agree. The GE smartwater 50 gas WH (made by Rheem) that Home Depot sells is a piece of crap. I recently installed one for a friend
and it didn't work. Had to remove it drive back to HD and get another one. Installed the second one and a month and a half later it stopped working. Removed it and went to Lowe's and purchased a Whirlpool. So far so good.

Also had very bad luck with A O Smith 50 gal. electric water heaters in my home. The first one leaked after 4 years 3 months. The second one lasted 3 years 2 months. The third one lasted 2 years 2 months and the forth one lasted exactly 1 year. All 4 of them leaked water. Junk!!!! The only reason I kept using AO Smith is because they were under warranty. When the forth one went bad the 9 year warranty had expired so I went to Lowe's and purchased a Whirlpool. A O Smith told me it was because I have a water softener.

The price on the AO Smith gas water heaters is breathtaking. Near double the cost of most others. Of course I am not yet seeing the real cost, just suggested retail. It would be weird to by it from Amazon but that might be my best option. One local plumbing supply place said they only sell water heaters to plumbers.

[E Sully]

I went with this Triangle Tube Phase III Water Heater. Uses a zone off the boiler. It was not cheap, but it has worked well in the 10 years I've had it.
Indirect Fired Water Heaters | TriangleTube