Bitcoin as an investment?

[wdfifteen]

I predict the crypto craze is going to crash big time and our government will bail out the people who sell it and leave investors holding the (empty) bag.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I predict the crypto craze is going to crash big time and our government will bail out the people who sell it and leave investors holding the (empty) bag.

the problem, like i think the same thing is going to happen to telsa stock too, is timing this to make money off it.

whats the quote "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"

i think bitcoin is a classic case in that. like its super obvious that crypto is scam. like its not hard to figure that one out. *when* that scam comes due, thats the hard part. the broligarchy will likely keep crypto solvent for years.

[lowyder993s]

like its super obvious that crypto is scam.

Some crypto, yes. Bitcoin, NO! You have nations adopting it, sovereign wealth funds, UHNW individuals all see the value proposition in it. You need to learn more.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by lowyder993s

like its super obvious that crypto is scam.

Some crypto, yes. Bitcoin, NO! You have nations adopting it, sovereign wealth funds, UHNW individuals all see the value proposition in it. You need to learn more.

no one is adopting it.

there is no value proposition.

i first encountered bitcoin on the deep-web in about 2010, when it was about 17 dollars a coin. it was scam then, its still a scam. it was used to sell drugs on the internet. like if your not selling drugs on the internet, it does nothing for you.

[lowyder993s]

" like if your not selling drugs on the internet, it does nothing for you. "

WELP...it was $321 the 1st time I bought it and its 100k now...so it HAS done something for me.

El Salvador has adopted it as a legal form of currency. They mine BTC using renewable resourses. They will be paying back their IMF loans and will have no use for central bankers anymore! I'd say THAT does something for them.

Love when no coiners think they are soooo right. we'll revisit it in a year; deal?

[Crowbob]

The move toward crypto has a lot to do with the precariousness of traditional currency, especially since trad currency is no longer backed by anything.

It looks to me like crypto is also not backed by anything. Dollars have value simply because we all agree that it has value. BTC has value the same way; by convention.

What I find interesting is that the value of BTC is measured in dollars just the same way the value of a dollar was measured in gold.

I’m not smart enough to understand BTC just as I don’t understand airplanes or magnets. But here they are!

[KFC911]

Thanks CB ... I just bought a bunch of magnets based upon yer advice .... this place is great !

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by lowyder993s

" like if your not selling drugs on the internet, it does nothing for you. "

WELP...it was $321 the 1st time I bought it and its 100k now...so it HAS done something for me.

El Salvador has adopted it as a legal form of currency. They mine BTC using renewable resourses. They will be paying back their IMF loans and will have no use for central bankers anymore! I'd say THAT does something for them.

Love when no coiners think they are soooo right. we'll revisit it in a year; deal?

what was "it"? what changed value? why did it change value?

please include terms like utility, time value of money, and a detailed chart of the goods produced and/or services delivered that would cause a change in value.

thank you.





ive known more about bit coin than you since before you knew about bit coin.

[KFC911]

I bought 1500 shares of Enron before anyone here ever heard of Bitcoin .... so there!

Still can't get it off my acct. tho' ... yep, tried several times ... it's like a bad tattoo

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by lowyder993s

Hfsp!

- “Have Fun Staying Poor”

[lowyder993s]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

- “have fun staying poor”

Yup!

[Paul T]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

no one is adopting it.

there is no value proposition.

i first encountered bitcoin on the deep-web in about 2010, when it was about 17 dollars a coin. it was scam then, its still a scam. it was used to sell drugs on the internet. like if your not selling drugs on the internet, it does nothing for you.

I agree, no one is adopting it, they are just trading it. It's been around for how long now and it's not even close to being relevant as a means of paying for goods and services. It's a purely speculative play traded amongst the same folks more or less. Institutional investment does not give it any credence IMO because those guys will chase ANYTHING that has the potential to make $$, regardless of real world utility. I read the other day that something like 15-20% of the fixed supply of BTC is gone forever - just *poof* evaporated, never to come back. If you accidentally sent Bitcoin to a dead address those coins are gone forever. You can NEVER get them back, they cease to exist. Imagine inheriting some Ford stock from your Uncle or something only to be told you can never have it because you lost the secret password. That's pretty much crypto and why, at least IMO, it will never reach widespread acceptance. Hell, half of the county is afraid to invest in the stock market? You think they'll embrace something where misplacing a passcode means their "asset" is lost forever? Have fun trading it, but this will never, ever become a true currency adopted by the masses.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The move toward crypto has a lot to do with the precariousness of traditional currency, especially since trad currency is no longer backed by anything.
It looks to me like crypto is also not backed by anything. Dollars have value simply because we all agree that it has value. BTC has value the same way; by convention.

I don't see what crypto is backed by either. It looks like another collectible craze to me, like Beanie Babies. As far as I can see, it has value only because it is a limited commodity and people are competing to buy it. I disagree that the dollar only has value because we agree that it does. The dollar is backed by the US Government, and the US Government owns gold, land, physical property of many kinds, and has taxing ability. We can disagree about the value of the dollar, but it is backed by something tangible.

Originally Posted by Crowbob

What I find interesting is that the value of BTC is measured in dollars just the same way the value of a dollar was measured in gold.

LOL! Yes.

Originally Posted by Crowbob

I’m not smart enough to understand BTC just as I don’t understand airplanes or magnets. But here they are!

And thermos bottles!! The same thermos bottle will keep hot stuff hot and cold stuff cold. How does it know whether to keep the stuff you put in it hot or cold?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Paul T

I agree, no one is adopting it, they are just trading it. It's been around for how long now and it's not even close to being relevant as a means of paying for goods and services. It's a purely speculative play traded amongst the same folks more or less. Institutional investment does not give it any credence IMO because those guys will chase ANYTHING that has the potential to make $$, regardless of real world utility. I read the other day that something like 15-20% of the fixed supply of BTC is gone forever - just *poof* evaporated, never to come back. If you accidentally sent Bitcoin to a dead address those coins are gone forever. You can NEVER get them back, they cease to exist. Imagine inheriting some Ford stock from your Uncle or something only to be told you can never have it because you lost the secret password. That's pretty much crypto and why, at least IMO, it will never reach widespread acceptance. Hell, half of the county is afraid to invest in the stock market? You think they'll embrace something where misplacing a passcode means their "asset" is lost forever? Have fun trading it, but this will never, ever become a true currency adopted by the masses.

for sure.

the scam works for as long more people are buying in, than selling out. like all ponsi schemes, like all these scams, it relies on those that have bought in, convincing those who havnt to buy in. as long as they are successful at that, and as long as they get out before the scheme is exposed, its all good. thats why all these guys will come in and owning a bunch of bit coin, try to convince you to buy it. its like they were born yesterday. or they will pretend to be born yesterday, in order to convince you through any means necessary to invest your money (even insults now? lol). its a perfect ponsi scheme for the age of the internet. it doesnt rely on a central figure, to sell everyone, it distributes out that role to everyone who owns some. makes them all evangelists for it. its even better described as an MLM i think.

but like all ponsi schemes, it will fail. just a matter of when. like i said, i think the broligarchy will keep this scheme going a lot longer, but like all valueless ponsi schemes, it will crash and burn.



and since no actual economic forces are at play, no utility has been generated, no goods produced and no services rendered, its economically a dead end. in fact, it has negative utility because it costs you computer hardware and power to mint the coins, so it has an only negative value economically.

think about it, if these coins were of any value at all, why would they need all these people trying to sell them to you? all these people who already own them, interesting...




have fun in your male equivalent to an MLM. get out before the whole thing comes down.

[Paul T]

[QUOTE=cockerpunk;12369838
and since no actual economic forces are at play, no utility has been generated, no goods produced and no services rendered, its economically a dead end. in fact, it has negative utility because it costs you computer hardware and power to mint the coins, so it has an only negative value economically.

.[/QUOTE]

This is very true. Latest estimates are about 155,000 KwH mine one coin today, or about 15 years worth of electricity for the average house. Just a colossal waste of resources for nothing. Who do you think Satoshi really is? CIA?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Paul T

This is very true. Latest estimates are about 155,000 KwH mine one coin today, or about 15 years worth of electricity for the average house. Just a colossal waste of resources for nothing. Who do you think Satoshi really is? CIA?

its funny cause all the proponents of these coins are all hell bent on saying the dollar isnt worth anything because its not backed by anything.

and then they back a coin that literally produces only negative economic activity, and nothing of positive value.

you can say a lot about nationalized fiat currencies, sure, but at least they measure actual economic exchange and values. like actual utility changes hands in them. so that makes them infinitely more *real* than any of these coins.

they are all gold standard this, and gold standard that, but then think real economic activity happens in a total fiction, backed by nothing, that doesn't even measure *any* economic exchange. you buy them, and sell them. nothing of value changes hands. it has no utility.

its even more fiat than the fiat currencies they claim to be replacing.





its just so obviously a scam. its just so obviously an MLM for men.

like i wasnt born yesterday, you dont get rich doing nothing. bitcoin sells the notion that you can. and your certainly making someone rich, but they are doing the work, selling you the MLM.

[brp914]

My recollection from Creature from Jekyll Island re: "fiat currency": USD dollar is a fiat currency, meaning:

- backed by nothing
- used for legal tender, meaning, you get paid in $$$ and you pay taxes in $$$

Like $$$, bitcoin is backed by nothing. The world may reject $$$ as a reserve currency and that would be bad for the perceived value of $$$, BUT...you still get paid in $$$ and must pay taxes in $$$, not bitcoin. Bitcoin is not even fiat currency. Until that changes, bitcoin is just a token that is valued by its believers. If bitcoin believers changed their minds or if there was some adverse legal ruling, bitcoin value could go to zero and its owners would be SOL.

[Helix8]

“People use Bitcoin as a speculative asset. It’s like gold-it’s just virtual and digital.” - J. Powell

[gregpark]

But it's not like gold at all. It's not rare and it's finite. What happens to the monetary value once all the bitcoins are sold? Doesn't bitcoin require new investors for the value to keep escalating?

[lowyder993s]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

what was "it"? what changed value? why did it change value?

please include terms like utility, time value of money, and a detailed chart of the goods produced and/or services delivered that would cause a change in value.

thank you.





ive known more about bit coin than you since before you knew about bit coin.

6x my post count...a DECADE less time here. Maybe I've been spending my time elsewhere. Smells like a paid protagonist...ANYWHO...for any who might care to listen:
THIS is the man putting this strategy into place for his FAILING company.
Watch the whole thing...intrigued; watch again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOne66vv2QU