Bitcoin as an investment?

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Helix8

“People use Bitcoin as a speculative asset. It’s like gold-it’s just virtual and digital.” - J. Powell

I can’t believe there are folks so deluded that they would believe that. My wife and I have happily ignored crypto. You see that rental house over there? I own it. In a pinch I could live in it. And it’s worth 3x what I paid for it 15 years ago.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Helix8

“People use Bitcoin as a speculative asset. It’s like gold-it’s just virtual and digital.” - J. Powell

It’s more like Beanie Babies than gold.

[Helix8]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

It’s more like Beanie Babies than gold.

Tell that to the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. It is his recent quote.

[TimT]

I'm quite pleased with Bitcoin, I know this is a sample of 1...

My girlfriend bought $10K of Bitcoin in late 2020. I think it was one Bitcoin and a fraction of another....

She cashed out last week after fees etc.. Her net was a bit over $100K

In our sample of 1. she did quite well

When she told me she was putting money into crypto..... I told her she was nuts

Well she rubbed in her "told you so" by buying me dinner

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I can’t believe there are folks so deluded that they would believe that. My wife and I have happily ignored crypto. You see that rental house over there? I own it. In a pinch I could live in it. And it’s worth 3x what I paid for it 15 years ago.

yup, its like its a real asset that has economic utility.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by gregpark

Doesn't bitcoin require new investors for the value to keep escalating?

this is what makes it an MLM.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by lowyder993s

6x my post count...a DECADE less time here. Maybe I've been spending my time elsewhere. Smells like a paid protagonist...ANYWHO...for any who might care to listen:
THIS is the man putting this strategy into place for his FAILING company.
Watch the whole thing...intrigued; watch again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOne66vv2QU

only in your mind is everyone against you part of a grand conspiracy.

when you should look in the mirror. the laws of economics apply whether you want them to or not.

[Sooner or later]

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/bitcoin-powers-above-105000-first-time-2024-12-15/

Bitcoin tops $106,000, hopes grow for strategic reserve

[G50]

https://youtu.be/oksraL7wN6Q?si=TVSG_97Es7f_pYHq

The first 20 minutes or so of this gives a good explanation of the theory of the economic utility of Bitcoin.

Pretty interesting. One thing I hadn’t really thought of is its use by non U.S. countries. Living in the country that holds the world reserve currency impacts our views on replacement currency (historically the world reserve currency country - us, and Spain, holland and England before us, etc, always thinks it will stay that way forever, but it never does). So we look at it differently. Smaller countries with unstable currencies may be more willing to adopt something like bitcoin.

But who knows.

[Paul T]

I watched the first 10 mins, I'll try and watch some more later. I still have a hard time coming to grips with this or any crypto really. The funny thing is, Bitcoin was first imagined as a transactional currency to buy goods and services (the next Visa), but in 15 years it has not even made a tiny dent in that space. Somehow it has now become to be viewed as an asset - yet it has zero claim to any cashflows, it is not backed by any government, it represents ownership in nothing, and the sole reason the price keeps going up is simply because there is a fixed supply and demand has increased, primarily by a few "whales" (Saylor, Wood, etc) that keep buying it by the truckload. It seems to be completely based on the greater fool theory to me. That's not to say it can't go a whole lot higher....these things have a tendency to work till they don't, but I just don't see the utility in it, and there are plenty of downside risks (volatility, hacking, lost passkeys resulting in coins lost forever, etc).

EDIT: I keep an open mind about this stuff however because I'm acutely aware that I'm an older guy stuck in my ways of thinking economically and it may very well be that I'm just not grasping the big picture here. If this thing is going to 5+ million per coin as some people think, I sure don't want to be left behind, that's why I keep trying to learn.

[911 Rod]

Has anyone cashed in?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by G50

https://youtu.be/oksraL7wN6Q?si=TVSG_97Es7f_pYHq

The first 20 minutes or so of this gives a good explanation of the theory of the economic utility of Bitcoin.

Pretty interesting. One thing I hadn’t really thought of is its use by non U.S. countries. Living in the country that holds the world reserve currency impacts our views on replacement currency (historically the world reserve currency country - us, and Spain, holland and England before us, etc, always thinks it will stay that way forever, but it never does). So we look at it differently. Smaller countries with unstable currencies may be more willing to adopt something like bitcoin.

But who knows.

it was invented to sell drugs over the internet, im well aware the entire point is to do unregulated financial transactions.

again, i first encountered bitcoin on the deepweb in high school at about 17 bucks a coin. i have forgotten more about bitcoin than most bitcoin MLM members know.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Paul T

EDIT: I keep an open mind about this stuff however because I'm acutely aware that I'm an older guy stuck in my ways of thinking economically and it may very well be that I'm just not grasping the big picture here. If this thing is going to 5+ million per coin as some people think, I sure don't want to be left behind, that's why I keep trying to learn.

cryptobros, like techbros, it really is only puddle deep.

like you also probably already know more about bitcoin than most bitcoin owners. there isnt like a twist or a secret deep down. there isnt some hidden super computer use for these things. its just like moneytron, and all the rest of these schemes, as long as there is more people buying in than leaving, it all works. just like any MLM the actual value being traded is worthless, and it will all come crashing down the second there is no one buying into it.

[Paul T]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

cryptobros, like techbros, it really is only puddle deep.

like you also probably already know more about bitcoin than most bitcoin owners. there isnt like a twist or a secret deep down. there isnt some hidden super computer use for these things. its just like moneytron, and all the rest of these schemes, as long as there is more people buying in than leaving, it all works. just like any MLM the actual value being traded is worthless, and it will all come crashing down the second there is no one buying into it.

I agree...just watched a few more mins of that vid and very sales-y. Reminds me of an old Amway sales video. Lots of hype, lots of FOMO baked in....I guess that's the exit strategy for the original holders. I believe when it comes crashing down, it'll be ugly, but as these things go, that could be years from now.

[TimT]

Has anyone cashed in?

My girlfriend turned 10K into nearly 100K in roughly 4 years...

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Paul T

I agree...just watched a few more mins of that vid and very sales-y. Reminds me of an old Amway sales video. Lots of hype, lots of FOMO baked in....I guess that's the exit strategy for the original holders. I believe when it comes crashing down, it'll be ugly, but as these things go, that could be years from now.

yup, once you buy in, you are more incentivized than ever to push it on all your friends, the internet, etc etc.

now its one thing to be dishonest and do this to your friends and the internet, its totally another one to actually be dishonest to yourself, and actually believe some of this ****.

but yeah, it works just like an MLM. and it hits the exact kind of people who would get involved in an MLM, and for the same psychological and sociological reasons. like, and there are ways to make money in MLMs, in a smarmy, theft, type way. if your cool with that, i guess, knock yourself out. im not. and of course folks like DJT love it, its got all the same tags they love, its disruptive, its anti-intellectual, its "sticking it to the man," its stealing from your own fans, etc etc

of course they love the idea of using taxpayer dollars to boost the price even more. like, this is the perfect use of government money to them. they get to make money on both sides of that transaction! they get to use the government to steal your money directly!



i remember when bitcoin started making headlines as an investment my first response was "why would anyone legit want cyber money used on the darkweb for buying drugs, child porn, and hitmen?" and when i talked to some of the first bitcoin evangelists, they had no idea where it came from, why, how it worked etc. again, all stuff i knew from my darkweb days on the hidden wiki, .onion stuff, etc. it was clear to me that none of these folks actually understood or believed any of this stuff, just that it was a thing, that was going up in value.

ie if you dont understand .onion, what the hell are you doing trying to sell me bitcoin? lol. honestly some of that darkweb stuff is far more economically valuable than bitcoin or block-chain tech ever could be. esp in the days of increasing government surveillance.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Originally Posted by TimT

I'm quite pleased with Bitcoin, I know this is a sample of 1...

My girlfriend bought $10K of Bitcoin in late 2020. I think it was one Bitcoin and a fraction of another....

She cashed out last week after fees etc.. Her net was a bit over $100K

In our sample of 1. she did quite well

When she told me she was putting money into crypto..... I told her she was nuts

Well she rubbed in her "told you so" by buying me dinner

You are the seed of perceived value to others with your statement going forward, you did your part.

[Eric 951]

Originally Posted by lowyder993s

El Salvador has adopted it as a legal form of currency. They mine BTC using renewable resourses.

I would like to see the data on how they are mining using renewable resources. The amount of power these data centers consume is staggering. I have a hard time believing these can be powered by renewable resources and the amount of energy they consume to "mine" creates a completely unnecessary drain on any power grid.

[stevej37]

What about Meme Coin?....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/models-storm-court-during-timberwolves-195445722.html


.

[Tervuren]

The bitcoin is backed by the work to find it.
This limits the rate of new bit coins.

In contrast, the rate of new dollars in recent years that are getting printed out and sent to the connected has been staggering.

What a dollar can buy is dropping as a result, and those farther from the connection are hardest hit.

This makes a demand for a currency that bypasses the taxation of printing.

I have yet to invest the time to get into crypto, but I can see a value to it.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I don't see what crypto is backed by either. It looks like another collectible craze to me, like Beanie Babies. As far as I can see, it has value only because it is a limited commodity and people are competing to buy it. I disagree that the dollar only has value because we agree that it does. The dollar is backed by the US Government, and the US Government owns gold, land, physical property of many kinds, and has taxing ability. We can disagree about the value of the dollar, but it is backed by something tangible.