I'd say that there are (at least) two kinds of engineers. There are those that excel at modeling/analyzing/tweaking things in the spirit of optimization and there are those that groove on making the whole thing happen.

Neither can survive without the other.

Kind of like "inward/downward" and "outward/upward" management.

It takes both kinds to run the world...

We _really_ suffer from the habit of taking good component engineers and promoting them into bad systems engineers - or even worse - managers.

Why, oh why, don't they realize that those are different disciplines?

We abuse and dead-end the careers of good fundamental engineers. Not everyone aspires to powerpoint-land and management. Some just want to be really good at what they do...

So, when Engineers question Gearya's education before they respond to his question, aren't they just proving his point?

Don't get me wrong, Living 30 years in a Boeing town, I know a lot of engineers.....They have many strong points and have helped me out many times. Usually, people skills are not high on their list of strong traits......(I hate to generalize, especially when that's what started this thread.)

You may be right because you totally lost me with that quick right hander!

You mean I should have been an engineer??? Loved my slot cars. I messed with the cars more. I remember making an AMX from a car, cutting the back off and painting red, white, & blue.
Then the Schwinn chopper. I made two. One the conventional way if you will by putting a 2nd pair of forks on the first. Of course that wasn't long enough. So I cut a sissybar apart filled the tubes with concert for strength and attached them to the forks. Now that was a chopper!!! I could hardly peddle it as the front end would want to pop up lol.

Never went to kindergarden so don't know much about wall bulding :(

Tim, Danimal,

Fair is fair.

I have been in industry for 40 years. I started with a slide rule protect protector. I was (and still are if you ask me ex) a nerd. Back then, very few engineers had social skills: couldn't write, communicate, work in teams. We didn't get out much. It was all about knowledge,

It is different today: I have interviewed candidates, potential hires and mentor a very young staff of 5 engineers. I not only need their knowledge, I need their ability to read, write, work in teams, communicate with all types of people in many disciplines. They need to be able to speak in front of small to large groups, be able to resolve conflict, listen and recover from failure. I also need them to be creative, think and problem solve.

I also have (2) women on my staff, something I never saw 40 years ago.


Education continues either formally of informally. You never stop learning because if you do lose your marketability. Companies, come/go , get bought/sold, moved/consolidated all of the time. My first job was in the stamping press industry: the American made equipment and companies are gone. I worked in the steel mills for 7 years - they are gone. Technology changes and you need to grow with it.

I am a lucky guy in that I always wanted to be an engineer - I like what I do and do it very well. I have been blessed to have been given opportunities and grow as a professional. It is not all luck, because no one is that lucky. I have never turned down an assignment even if it isn't in my area of expertise. I use a problem solving /analytically approach. Define the problem, ask why 5X : 80% of solving the problem is understanding what the problem is.

My hobby is painting in pastels - I had artistic talent since I was a kid - I continued to develop the craft over many years. It made me a better engineer, that's another story.


Engineers are arrogant compared to who? CEOs - now that is an arrogant group!

^+1 Agree!

I know we all have gifts and talents.
What one person can do is sometimes impossible for an other.
I speak math in the most elementary of terms .
How ever I have other talents.
In the end we all can appreciate each other.
The engineers on this board (for the most part) have never talked dwn to me and always been helpful..
At least never called me stupid...LOL
I am happy they are here and speak numbers fluently.
I do not think just "anyone' can run off to school and learn this trade (enginameering)
In there somewhere there has to be a knack for it too.

Personally I enjoy working with engineers for the most part. I enjoy learning the 'scientific principles' behind things I take for granted. As someone else has stated in my experience engineers are no more arrogant than any other occupation.

My office (construction/industrial plumbing) has 4 engineers, I am not one. One of my cousins/partners is a nuclear engineer, the other a mechanical engineer and PE, plus two other engineers on staff.

They do a great job on the difficult problems but come to me when the conversation turns to the practical side.

I have the highest respect for engineers, but sometimes it takes the grunts to solve the problem, simply, not the over thought complicated solutions I usually get from them.

They (engineers) are cocky, probably due to their education and being considered a professional, like some docs and lawyers.

Just my 2 cents.

^^ There's a broad range of "engineers". Even within the sub-set of "Mechanical Engineers" there are some that are all about theory and some that love to get out into the machine shop or pick up the torch.

Go get an Engineering Degree then. What this means is you pretty don't get booty for four years. Take tests that literally make you cry. Take finals that need 5-7 days of solid study time.

Am I arrogant ?? No. Do I think your comment is mindless....? Yes.

One thing I've noticed in my limited lifespan is that those with education tend to overestimate the importance of formal education. And those with little education tend to underestimate its value.

That's deep, man. :cool:

I know NY65912, Mike, in real life, he is a business owner... a successful business owner..I respect his outlook....

Even though I am an "arrogant engineer" Mikes, views are valid...

Disclaimer: I am an Engineer

So why are we picking on each other??? ;)

Now for some more fun. Let's talk about architects too. Architects and engineers are my favorite people.

Change orders $$$$$

We are installing a slew of fire pumps at the PA bus terminal in NYC. The authority's engineers called us and the supplier to help design the system because they were unfamiliar with this brand/type of pump. Never mind all the controls left off of the contract drawings. How about a mental health/psych ward in Brooklyn that the architect forgot to make suicide proof? 1M in change orders, thanks. Plus a delay claim due to poor design that led to cost overruns which stretched out the schedule by 18 months, a 1M claim.

The point is that many engineers look down at those who are not an engineer. It's a matter of being realistic, some are some are not. I don't take to people who think or at least act as they are better than anyone else, engineers or otherwise.

Thanks Tim. I hope to see you at the track soon.

ShakinJoe,
Mindless, no, I am just voicing an opinion based on my experiences. Your commenting on my statement seems that I hit a nerve. Sorry if I offended you. Running a large construction firm that holds many contracts with the City of New York as well as Amtrak, Metro North, building hospitals, water treatment and schools for 37 years I don't think is done by someone who is mindless.

Cheers

Mike,

No offense intended or taken. I thought the comment was mindless, not you!:p

I think there are idiots in all professions. Some even make it to be President of the USA

No, it's a point of reference. If he puts no great value on an engineering degree and he is a high school drop-out, that's far different from a Life Sciences grad that has a similar viewpoint. That's not arrogance, that's trying to understand his perspective so that a proper argument can be tailored to crush his 'hypothesis' with appropriate facts.

When we denigrate his inferior credentials then we prove his point.

have you met many pharmacists?

Exactly! It's never the engineer's fault.....SmileWavy