Car washes: Touchless vs Non-Touchless

[Nickshu]

Generally I like to handwash my daily drivers. In the winter this is not practical however. I have always used Touchless car washes and usually seek out Karcher Touchless washes as they seem to work best. But even still the touchless washes always seem to leave a film of dirt/crud behind. Thinking a traditional wash with brushes would do much better.

Thoughts on if/how damaging Non-Touchless washes are, if at all? Are there different types that might be better than others?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[bivenator]

I have tried the touchless in the winter and had a similar film, went to the "touch" and was much happier. I have heard the touchless chemicals are pretty hard on paint and wax.

[GH85Carrera]

Touch less will always leave dirt behind. It may knock off salt and sand but that is it.

[jcommin]

It really depends on where you live. I live in the city and there are plenty of touch car wash places. I can pay $7.95 for an early bird special. That includes vacuum, wash car mats, have the undercarriage sprayed with water, clean windows and towel dried. Normally it is $9.95.

There is no comparison with a touch wash in the city than touchless, touch or do it yourself in the burbs.

[Nickshu]

Not really a cost concern, I was more interested on the consensus about whether non-touchless car washes are damaging to paint. I have always figured the fabric brushes get full of little pieces of sand, which is rubbing everyone elses road grit all over your paint.

There's a new non-touchless place near where I live and they claim they use foam rubber brushes instead of fabric, which, I assume, would not get full of road grit. At least not as much?

[KevinTodd]

I typically wash my cars and bikes by hand but I have certainly been through my share of washes, too. Some wand-only types that simply spray high pressure streams, others that have spinning nylon brushes such as the ones at most gas stations, and then the ones that I actually prefer--the stand-alone business that has state-of-the-art systems, from the pre-wash and soap application to the air-dry at the end.

The difference between all of these methods is wildly noticeable to me. You just can't duplicate the level of detail you get when you do it by hand.

I think you can avoid any paint damage as long as the brushes/curtains are cloth. The filters are fine enough to get the grit out and utilize the gray (grey?) water repeatedly.

The thing is--I don't always have time to hand-wash, especially with 4 vehicles in the household.

I would say I'm about 70/30 hand-to-machine right now.

Swifty Express Car Wash in Atlanta, Decatur, Winder, Athens, McDonough, Chattanooga

[Por_sha911]

d) None of the above.
Touchless use harsh chemicals and the car isn't clean. Touch scratches up the car and rips wipers and antenna. I'd rather drive a dirty car than use the above

I wash my own cars but if I couldn't, there are a couple places in my town when they hand wash. Not much higher price and much better results. Also, every Saturday there is some group doing a car wash fund-raiser somewhere in town.

[Nickshu]

Problem is that where I live if you leave mag chloride on your car it eats various finishes.

[David McLaughlin]

I've made the decision that I'd rather take a chance with fine scratches than rust holes from these salted roads.I tried the touchless but anything more than dust stays on the car. I try to look for higher end car washes in better towns in hopes that they will take better care if their equipment.

On a side note, a friend took his custom Dodge Magnum to a touchless. The arm of the machine was loose and took out the entire side of the car. 100s of hours to repaint the graphics probably cost the caw wash owner a heart attack when he got the bill.

[William930t]

Coin/automatic car washes sure are convenient but I can see why they might leave a film behind. To cut down on costs, most wash systems recycle their water. Even with filters and separators there is no way all contaminants are contained. I still use them but only in final rinse mode, supposedly that setting uses the "cleanest" water.

[faverymi]

Im in the neither category.

If I don't have time to do it in my driveway I don't wash them.

One time I was in a rush and put the carrera in the touchless without drying. I had to spend a weekend with my buffer re polishing and removing the etched marks in paint and chrome. So never again. I know for for a fact here in MA they recycle and refilter water, and add a lot of chemicals.

Rather drive a dirty car instead of an "etched" or "scratched" car.

My DD is a lease so I can care less. That one goes on the discounted gas car wash.

[MrBonus]

I use Optimum No Rinse on my cars in the garage. In fact, putting a hose on my car seems archaic to me now.

[t6dpilot]

Unfortunately, I know way more about this subject than I would like - I own a flex-serve car wash. It is a friction wash with wraps that use closed cell foam "fingers" that do not hold dirt and water. Friction is the only way to get your car clean as the touchless leave a film behind. The only way to clean a car in a touchless environment is to use a lot of chemical which dramatically increases cost, so touchless operators use just enough to get the majority of dirt off.

Of course, I run all my cars through the was as does all my family. Being a car guy, I wanted to design a wash that is gentle on cars and gets them spotlessly clean. If the wash is properly adjusted and in good maintenance, it will not damage antennas,ect. But if you have pre-existing damage, all bets are off. My regular customers love my wash and say it is the best in the area. And many of the cars run through the wash are Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, and all the high end SUVs, ect from American manufacturers.

So all you hand washers out there, I am going to give you a few things to think about. Think that is the most gentle way to wash a car? Think again... What reservoir for soapy solution are you using - typically 2 gal right? Every time you dip your mitt into the water (and most city water is very hard = spots), you remove some of the solution and put it on the car. And you deposit the grit from the mitt into the bucket. This process goes on until you have half a gallon of very dirty water that you are continually putting on the car. Not to mention that each time you wipe that mitt across your cars finish, it fills up with dirt that you continue to wipe with. Now what do you do with the soap/ dirt solution? Pour it into the sewer - not environmentally friendly at all. Then you dry it off with a nice scratchy clean dry terry cloth.

Compare this to a well designed friction car wash. We use lots of fresh water for our water soluable chemical. High Ph soap to lift dirt, neutral Ph to give the wraps lubricity, and then a low Ph solution to give the finish that sparkly pop as it comes out of the wash. Full boat washes get wheel cleaner, underbody flush, triple foam polish, clear coat wax, and Rain-X, followed by a spot free rinse which has had all hardness and particulate removed (reverse osmosis system). We then finish drying the cars with clean, damp towels. Being slightly damp gives them the best lubricity and will soak up water better than a dry towel. When the wraps touch the car, they are free of dirt and grit and do not retain water (heavy). That is the design of the closed cell foam. They are very gentle on the finish and still do a great job of cleaning.

Now, here is the cool thing. While we use tons of water, we recycle up to 85% of our water. It is not a simple filtration system that produces sulfur smelling grey water as referenced earlier. It is a mini waste water treatment plant that removes particulate down to less than 5 micron and the resulting water has NO odor and is clean enough to drink. It is a biological system using micro orgainisms that occur naturally in our water supply. Operators who use this system are extremely environmentally friendly and significantly reduce water usage. No chemicals into the sewer!

A comment on scratching paint - anything that touches your car's finish is a scratch risk. Wash mitt, drying cloth, carwash wraps, dry towels, wax applicator and buff microfiber. Even your finger swiping it to see how dusty the car is. All scratch risk. That clean dry terry cloth you use for home drying? Makes me cringe thinking about it. Have I done it - of course. Do I like it? No. The good thing about professional car washes is that they have research and technology behind what they are doing.

Granted, not all washes are as high tech as this one and even mine takes a beating from running lots of cars. And we are certainly not immune to damaging a couple of cars during the year - stuff happens and sometimes through no fault of our own. So ther you have it from the inside view. Get out of your driveways and into the car wash!

This is a passionate subject for many, so flame on...

[VINMAN]

Never had any issue with drive thru car washes. I use them all the time in the winter. All of my vehicles are pretty much daily drivers. Plus im just not that anal about them. They will get more damage from everyday use, then they will from a car wash.

[Nickshu]

Scott thanks for your great reply. Exactly the info I was looking for and pondering. Back in college I worked with a body and paint guy who would say "anything that touches your paint at any time IS scratching it whether you see it or not" Washing your car is just a controlled scratch.
Actually what spawned this thread for me is that a foam brush wash just like yours just opened up near my house.

[Por_sha911]

Scott's business seems to be the best choice of using a car wash. I respect that he believe that what he sells is best. I wouldn't respect someone who knowingly offers what they consider to be a lesser product or service.

Having been accused of being a "Q-tipper" I will agree that although any contact can scratch a car, not all will if done properly:
-Use a quality car wash solution that has higher lubricity. Avoid chemicals that attack the finish. There is no magic bullet spray in a bottle.
-Wash from the top down. This cleans the dirtiest part of the car last. I add water as I wash so the concentration of dirty water is diluted. Refill the bucket if needed.
-Don't rub the car. Lightly glide your wash mitt over it. Always move in the direction of the length of the car. Circular motion will cause swirl marks that are easy to see. Dip the wash mitt often.
-Use a different mitt and bucket for wheels and undercarriage.
-Don't air dry: "clean" water still has minerals in it. I will drive the car down the block and back to get the majority of the water off and then chamois.
-Use microfiber or chamois and not terry cloth.
***Most of all: Keep a solid coat of high quality wax (not the cleaner/was products you can buy at Wallyworld or AutopartsRus) on the car so that the contaminants haven't locked onto the paint.

Want to know more? Call Larry at Car Care Specialties (877) 796-8300 or go to carcareonline.com (no affiliation). He spent an hour educating me on how to make my car shine before I every spent the first dime on his stuff.
Tell him Joe in TN sent you.

[reachme]

A friend of mine sells the filtration systems to car washes. Not sure about all car washes but every one he knows uses centrifugal systems to remove particulates and yes, they take out just about any solids out of the solution, keeps the sprayers working well so scratching is not your issue.
The water is recycled because it contains all kinds of solvents, gas, oil etc. really whatever washes off the top or underneath dirty cars and trucks. Solids removed but it is still considered a hazardous waste when it is disposed of which is costly so it isn't changed very often. In climates where they use salt on the roads this water contains as much salt as can stay in solution so that is your biggest issue unless there's a desalination plant.
I use carwashes on my daily drivers, cars look great and they drive through salt roads all the time so I'm not too worried. But the P car is asleep all winter, doesn't come out until several soaking rains and the street sweepers take up all the sand in the spring so needless to say it never sees a car wash. Glad car wash operators are also Porsche fans and looking to make them better all the time.

[LeeH]

I've run all of my daily drivers through the drive through car wash at the gas station down the street for years. They have the foam type brushes. I've never seen any signs of damage/wear. My wife's Mazda three was seven years old when we traded it in. It had some scratches, but none that were visible to the naked eye resulting from the car wash.

[bri450sl]

In the summer, all my vehicles get hand washed and are treated with the utmost of care. But in the winter, I cannot hand wash. Living in WI, the winters are brutal to vehicles. They must be washed every 2 weeks. If not, the salt is encrusted so much so that you cannot even see out the windows! I usually use the touch less system because I've had such bad luck with the "stand alone" car washes. Thought I was good paying a higher price for a better quality brush type car wash. When I exited the car wash, I noticed the gas lid was open. When I stepped out of my new vehicle, I was horrified to notice the gas lid was bent back, dented the side of the car and was missing paint. When I went to talk to the manager, he said "how do I know that you are not just blaming me for something that was already done? There is no way that happened here". I hate automatic car wash's, but its a necessary evil where I live. I haven't found any that are good.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by t6dpilot

Unfortunately, I know way more about this subject than I would like -
...

+1.

I was asked to invest in a car wash a few years ago, and learned a ton.

Two quick points:

1- I will NEVER use a touchless car wash. Never. Not after what I learned.

2- Car washes that use friction vary widely. I use one across town that does a tremendous job for $5.
There is one close to me that charges almost $15 for the basic wash and does a terrible job.

We ended up not building the car wash. Had a prime piece of land locked up, bank very willing to work wirth us, plans on ending up with several locations, but I backed out for other reasons.