Another Hunting Dilemma

[Jeff Higgins]

The black rhino. Endangered by anyone's definition, even us callous hunters. Pretty "majestic", too. Not very many left, but one hell of a lot more than a decade ago, thanks entirely to hunters' money. So, here is the gist of the latest debate: Is it better to kill one to help (financially) ensure the survival of the rest, or is each individual more important than the whole?

Namibia issues three black rhino permits every year. They have already narrowed the field for the lucky hunter before he or she arrives - mature males past breeding age, but still viable and aggressive enough to keep younger, breeding males away from "their" cows. So they cull them, allowing the younger, more virulent "breeders" access to the cows.

Now a hunting club in Texas has purchased one of these prized permits and hopes to auction it off. All money raised will be sent directly to the Namibian government, earmarked towards rhino recovery. Again, only older, non-breeding bulls can be shot. The hunts are very closely monitored by Namibian wildlife officials. It's for the greater good of the black rhino population. Who could possibly object? These specific animals are not long for this world as it is. Auctioning the permits to kill them will raise several orders of magnitude more money than simply selling them at face value. Yet, somehow, the cuddly stuffed animal huggers have found reason to object. Incredible. Do these folks have even as much as one toe in the waters of reality?

Dallas Safari Club auctioning black rhino hunting permit - CNN.com

[ShakinJoe]

Shoot one!

[Moses]

It's possible that the only way to save wild rhinos is to farm them. I'm certain that's true for tigers. It saved the American bison.

[HardDrive]

If you're not killing for meat, or to protect your livestock, then generally I'm against it. I can't fathom what kind of thrill some rich prick is going to get by killing a black rhino.

[aigel]

This is really easy. Take it up with Namibia, not the Texans. If they buy a legal tag and auction it off, more power to them. At least the monetary benefit to the program will be maximized.

It really is a question of personal beliefs. Some people think that all animals should die naturally (except that they never die in bed of old age in nature either), others think that hunting them is perfectly fine, if it is managed well. In this case, I am all for it. 1800 rhinos in Namibia. You can spare 3 old bulls.

G

[VillaRicaGA911]

No they don't have even a toe in the waters of reality. Lets look at this example, if they are as they say limiting the hunt to older males what would a lion hunt? Oh that's right the older weaker one. Wonder why? Lets twist the tree huggers mind even more. Who's design was it to have animals that would hunt other animals and select the older weaker ones to hunt?

[Evans, Marv]

Sounds like a good, rational strategy if it helps increase the number of an endangered animal. Some people will protest against anything. I could never figure it out.

[mikester]

No problem.

[Rick V]

"The Dallas Safari Club said it has received a string of death threats over the auction. The FBI is investigating the threats."

Yeah the best way to defeat a hunter is with a death threat. Tree huggers never cease to amaze me.

[Baz]

Breaking News......the hunter who wins the ticket.....declines to kill his Rhino.

[mattdavis11]

Another twist on the subject. I hope you won't mind, Jeff.

Lets say you have a chunk of land, a mere 2600 acres and you value the harvest of white tailed deer, you also make significant improvements, via wildlife management methods, over the years. Think 1 white tailed deer per 20 acres, harvest is around 12-15 a year, for every buck two does. For the first 3 years, the numbers come up, everyone sees whitetails that are nice and healthy during the hunting season. It's looking prime for a fourth year. Management has paid off.

The neighbor has high fenced his animals in, but by law he's only fencing predators out. The neighbor has also brought in exotics, muffalon, axis deer, black tailed deer, sika deer, fallow deer, etc... Cool stuff, nice wall hangers, and some good eating.

Then mother nature takes a dump on your management program, somebyatche, anthrax nearly wipes out the all of the whitetails, but somehow leaves the exotics alone. I guess they don't eat naturally occurring spores. If you need to look it up, be my guest, Edwards/Valverde county, Texas.

Mother nature also provided a wash of sizable proportions to create a hole under his fence. His animals can now roam your 2600 acres. Indignant species foraging about. Do you think it would be alright to clear your land of his animals?

I certainly did.




That guy lost his brother too, not 20 seconds later.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

thanks entirely to hunters' money.

Uh huh

I'd come up with some facts but facts are ridiculed here in POT these days so I'll refrain.

I think you just enjoy stirring the pot Jeff

[HardDrive]

Invasive species competing with local native species on your land. Seems likes a sound move. And a good looking mount to boot.

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Another twist on the subject. I hope you won't mind, Jeff.

Lets say you have a chunk of land, a mere 2600 acres and you value the harvest of white tailed deer, you also make significant improvements, via wildlife management methods, over the years. Think 1 white tailed deer per 20 acres, harvest is around 12-15 a year, for every buck two does. For the first 3 years, the numbers come up, everyone sees whitetails that are nice and healthy during the hunting season. It's looking prime for a fourth year. Management has paid off.

The neighbor has high fenced his animals in, but by law he's only fencing predators out. The neighbor has also brought in exotics, muffalon, axis deer, black tailed deer, sika deer, fallow deer, etc... Cool stuff, nice wall hangers, and some good eating.

Then mother nature takes a dump on your management program, somebyatche, anthrax nearly wipes out the all of the whitetails, but somehow leaves the exotics alone. I guess they don't eat naturally occurring spores. If you need to look it up, be my guest, Edwards/Valverde county, Texas.

Mother nature also provided a wash of sizable proportions to create a hole under his fence. His animals can now roam your 2600 acres. Indignant species foraging about. Do you think it would be alright to clear your land of his animals?

I certainly did.




That guy lost his brother too, not 20 seconds later.

[Hads930]

Matt you dont have any axis running around you want gone do you? Terrible weather my two hunts this year left me without venison in the freezer. Would pay for management hunts if you know of anyone. PM response.

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Another twist on the subject. I hope you won't mind, Jeff.

Lets say you have a chunk of land, a mere 2600 acres and you value the harvest of white tailed deer, you also make significant improvements, via wildlife management methods, over the years. Think 1 white tailed deer per 20 acres, harvest is around 12-15 a year, for every buck two does. For the first 3 years, the numbers come up, everyone sees whitetails that are nice and healthy during the hunting season. It's looking prime for a fourth year. Management has paid off.

The neighbor has high fenced his animals in, but by law he's only fencing predators out. The neighbor has also brought in exotics, muffalon, axis deer, black tailed deer, sika deer, fallow deer, etc... Cool stuff, nice wall hangers, and some good eating.

Then mother nature takes a dump on your management program, somebyatche, anthrax nearly wipes out the all of the whitetails, but somehow leaves the exotics alone. I guess they don't eat naturally occurring spores. If you need to look it up, be my guest, Edwards/Valverde county, Texas.

Mother nature also provided a wash of sizable proportions to create a hole under his fence. His animals can now roam your 2600 acres. Indignant species foraging about. Do you think it would be alright to clear your land of his animals?

I certainly did.




That guy lost his brother too, not 20 seconds later.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Baz

Breaking News......the hunter who wins the ticket.....declines to kill his Rhino.

And said rhino continues to keep breeding bulls away from "his" cows, who then fail to reproduce, and the herd further declines as a result.

You really don't understand any of this, do you?

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

You really don't understand any of this, do you?

Oh we understand completely Jeff. I'll recap... Man hunts, poaches a species to near extinction for various reasons, they taste good, (Rhino?? I know don't knock it til you try it), they are a nuisance, their precious horns, and the best reason of all, the mere sport of it. The public, (non hunters), cries out. Hunters now have nothing to kill, er harvest, (that sounds so much better, especially when we remove all the blood and guts from that smiling kodak minute). So MAN tries to fix said extiction by holding a raffle to only kill, (oh crap that K word again), harvest 3 of the beasts because MAN has upset the balance that Ma Nature has down pat. Don't blame her for MAN'S fuch up.

I'll make a deal with you Jeff... I won't look at any pics of the critters or go into nature to view them if you stop harvesting, (I finally got it right), them. Isn't that one of hunter's rationalizations? Us none hunters wouldn't have the pretty, majestic animals to look at if it wasn't for hunter folk?

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Oh we understand completely Jeff. I'll recap... Man hunts, poaches a species to near extinction for various reasons, they taste good, (Rhino?? I know don't knock it til you try it), they are a nuisance, their precious horns, and the best reason of all, the mere sport of it. The public, (non hunters), cries out. Hunters now have nothing to kill, er harvest, (that sounds so much better, especially when we remove all the blood and guts from that smiling kodak minute). So MAN tries to fix said extiction by holding a raffle to only kill, (oh crap that K word again), harvest 3 of the beasts because MAN has upset the balance that Ma Nature has down pat. Don't blame her for MAN'S fuch up.

I'll make a deal with you Jeff... I won't look at any pics of the critters or go into nature to view them if you stop harvesting, (I finally got it right), them. Isn't that one of hunter's rationalizations? Us none hunters wouldn't have the pretty, majestic animals to look at if it wasn't for hunter folk?

Even where hunting is verboten, game wardens/managers/rangers/whatever have to act as the apex predator on occasion to keep all the other animals healthy. That is what is going on here. However, instead of sending out one of the wardens/rangers to do the "harvesting" they are auctioning off the right to do it - which allows them to buy more land, fund more rangers or equipment, etc.

The same has happened here in the US, and *EVERYONE* is benefited by it. Read up on the Pittman-Robertson Act - Pittman and where the funds from duck stamps, etc. go

[wdfifteen]

I suppose the answer would depend on why these species were nearly extinct in the first place. If it was hunting that put them on the endangered species list, it's only right that hunters bear the expense of trying to bring them back.

[M.D. Holloway]

Matt,
You see anymore exotics (Axis most!), you give me a call and I will grab my Son and we shall harvest 1+ and pay you a nice finders fee as well...

[carambola]

stock the sperm before the hunt