F-150 made now with aluminium

[john70t]

2014 Detroit Auto Show: 2015 Ford F-150 brings aluminum and LEDs to the full-size truck world - NY Daily News
'No, the biggest change here is the use of aluminum for most body components and more high strength steel for its fully boxed frame, resulting in a staggering weight loss of some 700 pounds.
This will help it accelerate quicker, brake better and handle with better body control than ever.
At the same time, Ford says, the aluminum body is stronger and more dent-resistant, too.'
They are going big with this marketing, just so yous know for football sunday...

Supposedly close to aircraft Al material quality, but I thought bauxite was getting more scarce.
I wonder if other manufacturers will be jumping on the bandwagon?

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by john70t

...

Supposedly close to aircraft Al material quality, but I thought bauxite was getting more scarce.
I wonder if other manufacturers will be jumping on the bandwagon?

I've heard that so much aluminium has been produced that we might be able to stop making it at some point. It can be recycled forever.

[cashflyer]

Aluminum is more dent resistant?
On what planet?

Ever see a Cessna after a hail storm?

[MT930]

At last a hope at making the eco boost mileage numbers they were dreaming of.


They are really nice trucks, I still want a V-8 in my pick up truck. I also don't want it any lighter.

Cars though that's a different story.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Aluminum is more dent resistant?
On what planet?

Ever see a Cessna after a hail storm?

I am guessing they are basing that on their alloy having a higher yield strength than mild steel.

[red-beard]

5456 is an advanced form of 5086. These are marine grade, so salt will not adversely affect them.

We use lots of 6061, which is volume for volume, about 97% the strength of steel, and 1/3rd the weight.

For a similar strength to steel, the 5456 will about 45% less weight. I expect they had to "add" a bit more volume of aluminum to make of for the extra flexibility of aluminum vs. steel. . This could make it more dent resistant, since the sheet metal would be thicker.

The coolest thing to me would be the possibility of an unpainted version.

[Don Ro]

Listened to an exec from GM on Bloomberg radio today saying that they are now focusing on reducing the weight of all components.
I've always thought that in the motorcycle industry instead of boosting engine HP they ought to focus on wt. reduction.
One of the funnest bikes I've owned was a 511 cc, 240 lb. street-legal-from-factory Husky.
.

[BReif61]

What will this do to the price of the truck? All that aluminum can't be cheap.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by red-beard

We use lots of 6061, which is volume for volume, about 97% the strength of steel, and 1/3rd LESS weight.

Fixed that for you...

Audi's been building aluminum cars for nearly 20 years, as have others. They don't seem to be more susceptible to hail damage than other cars. I would welcome losing 700 pounds from a truck. My last Ford was an absolute pig. It's f***ing ugly, though, especially the front end. Sounds like the interior won't be good looking, either. Looks about as aerodynamic as a brick...

JR

[cashflyer]

What will this do to the cost of repairs after a collision, and to the cost of insurance to cover those repairs?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by javadog

Fixed that for you...

Audi's been building aluminum cars for nearly 20 years, as have others. They don't seem to be more susceptible to hail damage than other cars. I would welcome losing 700 pounds from a truck. My last Ford was an absolute pig. It's f***ing ugly, though, especially the front end. Sounds like the interior won't be good looking, either. Looks about as aerodynamic as a brick...

JR

It wasn't wrong. Density of Aluminum is 2.6 g/cm^3. Iron is 7.874g/cm^3.

For the same VOLUME, aluminum weighs 1/3rd of iron/steel.

6061-T6 aluminum, for the same VOLUME, is 97% the strength of A36 steel. 5086 aluminum is about 50% the strength of A36. 5456 is about 20% stronger than 5086, or about 60-65% the strength of the A36 Steel.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Listened to an exec from GM on Bloomberg radio today saying that they are now focusing on reducing the weight of all components.
I've always thought that in the motorcycle industry instead of boosting engine HP they ought to focus on wt. reduction.
One of the funnest bikes I've owned was a 511 cc, 240 lb. street-legal-from-factory Husky.
.

Please tell me more about this bike.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by BReif61

What will this do to the price of the truck? All that aluminum can't be cheap.

I'd have to look at the cost of the 5456. We use lots of 6061 and it runs about 3 times the cost of steel ($2/lb vs $0.80/lb). But we use only 1/3rd the weight, so it is a wash.

If 5456 is about the same price as 5086/6061, you'd need to use 50% more volume than 6061 for the same strength. That would imply a 50% cost increase over steel.

The thing to understand though, this alloy is about equal to building cars out of 300 series stainless steel.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Aluminum is more dent resistant?
On what planet?

Ever see a Cessna after a hail storm?

Very thin light weight designed aviation skin...steel, cloth & dope or aluminum is not gonna take well to dents....

As mentioned already, to get similar strength, the pieces will have more volume.

Originally Posted by BReif61

What will this do to the price of the truck? All that aluminum can't be cheap.

This is one of the ridiculous things about the "green movement" that focuses on MPG and hippy hybrids, there is HUGE energy costs in these high strength steel and aluminum manufacture. At least with a Ford Truck it may see 300,000+ miles which may make it worth it, but people who drive 5,000 miles a year buying a "Hybrid" to save the planet....

I do like that Ford has its head on it shoulders moving forwads and inventing, instead of just copying whatever comes out.

Originally Posted by john70t

Supposedly close to aircraft Al material quality, but I thought bauxite was getting more scarce.
I wonder if other manufacturers will be jumping on the bandwagon?

Everything we make at our shop is from recycled aluminum, so although "virgin" aluminum may get scarce, we can always mine our landfills for cans...

[Mark Henry]

I have a buddy who repairs the stamping machines for aluminum hoods. The aluminum is a PITA bunging up the dies every 5 hoods and you can bend/dent the hood just closing it. You have to drop it to latch, pressing will dent it.
Sounds real good in the real world, I guess it will put bodyshops back on track.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by red-beard

It wasn't wrong. Density of Aluminum is 2.6 g/cm^3. Iron is 7.874g/cm^3.

For the same VOLUME, aluminum weighs 1/3rd of iron/steel.

6061-T6 aluminum, for the same VOLUME, is 97% the strength of A36 steel. 5086 aluminum is about 50% the strength of A36. 5456 is about 20% stronger than 5086, or about 60-65% the strength of the A36 Steel.

Okay, sorry, I should have been a little more specific. A part made from aluminum for a pickup truck won't likely be 1/3rd the weight of a steel part. Heat treated 6061 has nice strength but it isn't as nice if it's annealed. It's hard to say what alloy Ford will use and what form it will be in when the parts are made. My guess is that it will be 5000 series alloys and those will not be heat treated. I can't see them saving more than half the weight, if they are lucky and more likely it will be about 1/3. I was thinking in terms of the specific strength/stiffness of a panel made from the stuff, as it will have to be thicker than the steel one.

Audi claims about a 10% weight savings from using aluminum instead of steel on their A8 models. I'd estimate that the body structure of that car is 1/3 to 1/4 of the total weight of the car.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

Iyou can bend/dent the hood just closing it. You have to drop it to latch, pressing will dent it.

I've owned a half dozen cars that were made from aluminum and none have been a problem. The Lambo used .040 aluminum for the body and that was a bit thin. The flatter panels did have some flex.

The Audis on the other hand have thicker skins and haven't been damaged in mild hail. Part of it has to do with the shape. If you put a little curve into a panel, it helps. Large hail would damage it, but then it will also damage a steel car. Fixing dents in aluminum is easier than fixing dents in steel; at least the ones I've had to deal with were that way.

JR

[red-beard]

JR, I stated the alloy they are using: 5456-H112.

[BeeMaster]

I have a 77 Grumman curb master 1 ton with 300-400,000+ miles on it ( don't know for sure how many time the odometer turned over. It weighs in at 5200ish. It does not have 1 dent in the aluminum body, only the floor in back is beat up. After coming out of a gravel pit this summer a 4-6" rock came lose and went up into the aluminum wheel we'll did leave a mark. So aluminum is stronger than you think. Oh and it gets 11-12 mpg with a chevy 350. I will admit I am not a ford fan but I am a aluminum fan when
Used correctly.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by red-beard

JR, I stated the alloy they are using: 5456-H112.

Sorry, not enough coffee yet. That's got a yield strength of about 24ksi. 6061 is around 40ksi in the T6 condition.

JR