Familial Racism

[Jeff Higgins]

O.k., kids, before I get into this, just one request - let's not make this political/religious. I don't see it as such.

Let me further preface with this: I'm 50/50 Irish/German. My dad was third generation Irish, my mom came on her own from Germany in the '50's. My strict Lutheran Oma and Opa darn near disowned her when she wrote home announcing she was marrying an Irish Catholic. She tells me now that it darn near tore the family apart. In the end, my Irish dad and my German Oma, Opa, aunts, uncles, and cousins couldn't have been closer, in spite of a continent's and ocean's separation.

Fast forward to this week. My two sons have a very good friend, whom we will call "James" (because that's his name...). James is first generation Korean, with mom and pop fresh off the boat. Great kid, exceedingly bright (just earned a PHd in some form of chemistry). James has been dating the same young lady for over three years. She has a lot on the ball in her own right, I believe having at least one advanced degree and a successful start to a promising career in her chosen field. They are getting "serious", and talking marriage and family. They are fantastic for each other.

Just one "problem" - she is Latin American. James has now been given an edict by his Korean parents - her or them. They have flat out told him he will be disowned, written out of the will, excluded from the family trust, and on and on if he actually follows through and marries this wonderful young lady. Korean or bust is his parent's mantra.

I'm just floored. I travel enough to see first hand that our ideas of marriage are not necessarily the world's norm; I understand that. But to see such a hard line drawn, here in America (even by recent immigrants) is pretty surprising. The old man is a successful businessman, here in America, and James (late 20-something) was even born here, so they have been here awhile. Ostensibly even "acclimated", such as it is. So this came out of nowhere, even for James. Poor kid. We have no idea what he is going to do at this point.

[SilberUrS6]

Well, I know for a fact that it's not only recent immigrants. When I was in college, I saw quite a bit of a rich Iranian girl (a lot of rich folks fled from Iran to the U.S. when the shah was deposed), and she flat out told me that there was no way that it would ever be serious, because her parents would never let her see (not marry, just plain date) a non-Persian boy. Fast forward to my last job - one of the women there was dating a man not of her own race. Her parents wouldn't talk to her because of that. Folks who can trace coming here from Europe back nearly 200 years.

Asians seem much more apt to draw those lines IME. But they are by no means alone.

[jyl]

The last bastion of racism is in private.

One of my best friends was disowned by his extremely wealthy family in Malaysia because he married a white woman.

When I was young, my grandparents made it clear that their preference, in descending order, was Chinese, white, Hispanic, black, Korean, then Japanese.

Racism dies hard. The young man should introduce his lady to his family, explain that his life and love is his own decision, and accept the consequences. He is a man, no longer a boy.

[stomachmonkey]

First true love who I was sure I'd end up marrying is Jewish.

I'm not.

Her father put so much pressure on the relationship that it all ended rather ugly.

It was a big deal to my almost FIL.

My current in laws could care less.

[matt f]

Asians are no different than many other immigrants.
I'm born in 62 and a Roman Catholic couldn't marry an Irish Catholic.
We are all afraid, sorry perhaps some of us are afraid of change. Yet **** happens.
Thank God my parents chose to think independently.


Matt

Wait for it, the religion haters in 1,2,3.

M

[Super_Dave_D]

At some point you need to live your own life and not let your parents influence your decision. I hope he marries her and says screw it. I for one never made decisions based on monies I may or may not inheret. Glad my inlaws or my parents didn't feel this way as I love my Hispanic goddess lol.

[sc_rufctr]

I've seen this first hand and it's never nice when parents lay it down like that. There's not gentle way to put this but...

IMO one of the main reasons for the objection is because the grand parents do not want mixed race grand children.

There are many reasons for this but one of the main ones is because of the difficulty that child will have in any society because of their mixed race.
(perceived or real, it doesn't really matter from the grand parents point of view)

I wish this James well and hope he can work things out with his parents. Marriage can be hard enough without external pressures.

[Bill Douglas]

A buddy of mine is of Chinese decent. Her name is Denise. LOL I don't know why they called her Denise if they are so strict... anyways, she married a white guy and her parents disowned her. She thought oh well, their choice. Then along came a baby and the parents changed their tune completely. Denise being Denise welcomed them into "her" family, and happily ever after etc.

[Rick Lee]

Oh, I have some experience here. Firstly, what we in the US call racism is not considered racism in the rest of the world. In America we are taught to feel guilty and ashamed for believing any racial stereotype, no matter how accurate. We are shamed to even think about crossing the street if a - insert race - person comes walking toward us. Racism in much of the rest of the world is not something people are ashamed of. It's just a fact of life and everyone lives with it. You'll never see some billboard or tv campaign in China to "stand up to racism" or some such silliness.

I don't know about Koreans, but I'm guessing it's similar to Japan and China, whose people think they really are the master race and take very seriously whom their kids marry, since it's usually the kids taking care of the parents in old age. That thinking is not difficult to continue in the US, since you can move here from anywhere and settle into your own ethnic community, never really even having to learn English or deal with the natives.

I had a black GF whose mom could not stand the thought of us getting married. She sabotaged the relationship and even broke up with me for her by telling me to never call their house again. I didn't both with her cell phone after that either.

Similar to Silber's story, my first Chinese GF also told me to not take the relationship seriously, as her old man would never accept me. When it started getting serious, he had his (Chinese) business partner in the US have us over for dinner to check me out. I passed with flying colors (I was well-trained in dating Chinese by then) and then was summoned to the GF's uncle's house in TX for another battery of tests. I also passed those and things went great from there... for a while. It ended badly, but she did end up marrying and divorcing a white guy. Now he gets to see her posting photos on Facebook of their daughter she took to China. Glad I dodged that one.

Mrs. Lee's folks are a little more accepting and I considered myself a near PhD in dating Chinese by the time I met her folks. I know they look down on all non-Chinese and plenty of Chinese who have darker skin or speak in a certain way. But they're pretty accepting of me because Mrs. Lee seems to be happy and I'm not poor.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Then along came a baby and the parents changed their tune completely.

Same thing with my wife's family - her father is Japanese and her mother is German/Polish midwesterner. Obachan (Japanese grandma) was pissed about the possibility of halfbreed children...until she met them. Then Japanese Auntie couldn't have kids and ended up trying to adopt one of my wife's brothers as an heir. Crazy stuff.

Funny, my wife is essentially the spawn of the Axis Powers, and I'm Russian/German/Sicilian Jewish. Our kids will be a hell of a bunch of olive branches!

[Evans, Marv]

I experienced this sort of thing from my mother as an adult. My father had already died years before. However I had long established a posture of independence from their views from the time I was in my early 20s/late teens. When I first introduced my then GF (now wife) to my mother, the first thing she said to me after my GF left was, "You didn't tell me she was Filipino." After we were married, I had to tell her if she couldn't be a positive participant in my life, she wouldn't be a part of it. In SoCal, ethnic and racial diversity is said to be more than any other part of the country. Whether some like it or not, that's going to be the norm everywhere in the not so far future. It's been a certainty since the country continued welcoming immigrants. He needs to choose his life and live it as he sees fit, and I agree grandkids might change the picture. I suppose the grandkid thing wouldn't be a certainty, but they aren't the parents either.

[Nickshu]

I have traveled the world and have found that racism/nationalism/ethnicisim (is that a word?) is more common and accepted just about everywhere but in the USA. The irony is that most Americans think the opposite is true, that we are the only country that has racism in the world and everywhere else it does not exist. Not that we don't have our issues in this country, but at least we seem to talk openly about it.

[jorian]

The parents have the luxury of making a choice, their son doesn't. He's already all in with his gal. I assume the parents immigrated to the US for a better life. That probably meant getting away from oppressive rules, customs and yes, family expectations. Now they want to export the same crap they ran away from. There is also the debilitating habit of saving face. Maybe the parents are responding to pressure within the local Korean community. Either way I hope the son finds the strength to stand up for himself.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by jorian

I assume the parents immigrated to the US for a better life. That probably meant getting away from oppressive rules, customs and yes, family expectations. Now they want to export the same crap they ran away from. There is also the debilitating

Yes, I have zero sympathy for those who come here, refuse to assimilate and then get upset that their kids actually assimilate. Don't like it, stay home. A very close friend married a girl whose folks came here from Hong Kong. The folks were outraged that both their daughters dated white guys. But they came around and all is well now.

[Gogar]

James will be fine. So will his girl.

Perhaps he will have an opportunity to educate his parents. A long, difficult opportunity.

[JavaBrewer]

2 or 3 more generations and this will be a non issue.

My first hand experience is that Asians take this stuff very seriously. Like Rick said if the white guy makes good money the girls parents will see past it quicker.

[cstreit]

Parents like that suck. Their loss.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

2 or 3 more generations and this will be a non issue.

My first hand experience is that Asians take this stuff very seriously. Like Rick said if the white guy makes good money the girls parents will see past it quicker.

I think that applies to most non Asian parents as well.

But yes Asians take this stuff very seriously. They are very proud of their heritage and want to protect it.
And having mixed race off spring dilutes that heritage. I understand this but I think it's outdated and redundant.

For instance some Chinese people dislike Japanese people and yet they are genetically the same race.
Only culture and religion separate them. (like that's not a big deal...lol)

This has been going on since the beginning of recorded history. Somehow someone isn't good enough for my little girl/boy.
It's just that when a different race is involved it become the focus.
You'd probably find even if James found a nice Korean girl his parents would find something to moan about.
Like her family doesn't have enough money/status/power etc or her parents second cousins got a divorce.

[jyl]

Quote de JavaBrewer

2 or 3 more generations and this will be a non issue.



My first hand experience is that Asians take this stuff very seriously. Like Rick said if the white guy makes good money the girls parents will see past it quicker.

I think that applies to most non Asian parents as well.



But yes Asians take this stuff very seriously. They are very proud of their heritage and want to protect it.

And having mixed race off spring dilutes that heritage. I understand this but I think it's outdated and redundant.



For instance some Chinese people dislike Japanese people and yet they are genetically the same race.

Only culture and religion separate them. (like that's not a big deal...lol)



This has been going on since the beginning of recorded history. Somehow someone isn't good enough for my little girl/boy.

It's just that when a different race is involved it become the focus.

You'd probably find even if James found a nice Korean girl his parents would find something to moan about.

Like her family doesn't have enough money/status/power etc or her parents second cousins got a divorce.

The Chinese/Japanese thing comes from World War Two, as well. My grandparents lived in China during the war, moved their family from city to city to avoid the fighting, sometimes on foot, sometimes sleeping in fields, were bombed at least once. Those scars run deep.

And the current Chinese government finds it politically useful to keep the resentment going.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I think that applies to most non Asian parents as well.

But yes Asians take this stuff very seriously. They are very proud of their heritage and want to protect it.
And having mixed race off spring dilutes that heritage. I understand this but I think it's outdated and redundant.

For instance some Chinese people dislike Japanese people and yet they are genetically the same race.
Only culture and religion separate them. (like that's not a big deal...lol)

This has been going on since the beginning of recorded history. Somehow someone isn't good enough for my little girl/boy.
It's just that when a different race is involved it become the focus.
You'd probably find even if James found a nice Korean girl his parents would find something to moan about.
Like her family doesn't have enough money/status/power etc or her parents second cousins got a divorce.

My grandmother was pretty racist, but that is the was she was brought up. She was second generation Japanese American (Nisei), and she would comment on ancestry from differing areas of Japan. She would also say Okinawans are not Japanese, and many Okinawans feel the same way. In high school, I went to predominantly white school and dated white girls and grandma wasn't very happy. My brother used to have a gf that was Okinawan and she would make comments. My sister had a Hawaiian bf and the comments were even worse. 30 years later, my brother is married to a Japanese girl whose mother is from Japan. My sister is single and my gf is straight from Korea. My gf also made comments about not marrying or dating any not Asian.

As another poster said, give it a couple generations.